2020 GT500 vs. Hellcat vs. ZL1

[w3rkn]

Define "don't keep up"...

Over what distance, or under what conditions..? With who driving..?

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[bluebeastsrt]

Define "don't keep up"...

Over what distance, or under what conditions..? With who driving..?

1/8 mile, 1/4 mile, half mile. Two car lengths at a half mile. Like was claimed by speed racer. (Did you notice he had the good sense to leave instead of keep arguing)?. It don't f%&king matter who's driving. We are talking about the cars. Not the Drivers.! As a matter of fact! The only Way a GT will be with-in 2 car lengths at a 1/2 mile with a ZL1. Is the Driver in the Camaro completely sucked balls at driving. There is no way a GT wins at any length unless the Camaro is towing a trailer. And if you want to keep arguing that a GT will be able to. There is no helping you and you should probably head over to Camaro6. And drive those guys crazy with your nonsense. At least they'll be justified in saying mustang drivers are stupid then!

 

[MaskedRacerX]

I've been racing cars in different ways for 30+ years, I've owned Vettes, a Supra that would suck the headlights out of most cars from a roll, cars dialed in to road course work, etc., here's my $0.02.

To frame this: the question on the table was "How effective with the new GT500 be vs. the ZL1", and in discussing that, someone said, hugely faster since a regular '18 GT is almost as fast.

First, an anecdotal bit:

Me and the owner of a 6G 1LE (manual obviously), roll vs. an auto ZL1 Coupe, 1LE driver, extremely competent (instructs at HPDEs), it was no contest. We tried it several times for a little better sampling, no, every time, even with a few ticks of driver hesitation or the 1LE jumping the gun, the ZL1 pulled away from 20-40, like the 1LE was in 6th gear. I will be completely honest that I cannot claim whether the ZL1 was bone stock, but it wasn't "aftermarket loud" and it was supposed to be

Aero? These are modern cars we're talking about, the ZL1 representing Chevy's ultimate modern Camaro design, and while I wasn't able to find any drag coefficient data for frontal area and/or CdA for the ZL1, does anyone really think at a rolling to 1/2 mile speeds, between two modern designs, there's going to be enough difference to make up for a significant power difference?

Finally, sure, if the race isn't max effort, near matching, perfect execution by both drivers, the outcome can vary greatly ... that's such a "no shit" concept, I figured that didn't even need to be said Seriously, I think when we say, "X car is faster than Y", we're talking about in cases with variables controlled, that's the commonly repeatble outcome is that X is faster.

I'm a software engineer, in some extremely specific case, language Y is faster vs. X when some additional variables A/B/C are present that favor Y, but _mostly_, X is faster, we'd say "X is faster" and get pretty much unanimous agreement

 

[w3rkn]

1/8 mile, 1/4 mile, half mile. Two car lengths at a half mile. Like was claimed by speed racer. (Did you notice he had the good sense to leave instead of keep arguing)?. It don't f%&king matter who's driving. We are talking about the cars. Not the Drivers.! As a matter of fact! The only Way a GT will be with-in 2 car lengths at a 1/2 mile with a ZL1. Is the Driver in the Camaro completely sucked balls at driving. There is no way a GT wins at any length unless the Camaro is towing a trailer. And if you want to keep arguing that a GT will be able to. There is no helping you and you should probably head over to Camaro6. And drive those guys crazy with your nonsense. At least they'll be justified in saying mustang drivers are stupid then!

Sorry, please read back... I am talking about you accosting a fellow member here, suggestion in no way possible (in any regard) can a 460hp Mustang a10 be that close to another car in that video.

Yet, there are two videos showing just that.




You can't accept that, because you are a pro drag racer and have a 9s car. While I suggested that there are many factors how these two cars could be that close.

You refuse to admit anything other than HP matters. I am showing you how reality matters. Try and take your skinny wheeler 1/2 mile plz... you wouldn't even be able to keep it on the tarmac and would probably spin out given your suspension set up... lulz..

Dragstrips are manicured surfaces. The real world isn't...

 

[bluebeastsrt]

Sorry, please read back... I am talking about you accosting a fellow member here, suggestion in no way possible (in any regard) can a 460hp Mustang a10 be that close to another car in that video.

Yet, there are two videos showing just that.




You can't accept that, because you are a pro drag racer and have a 9s car. While I suggested that there are many factors how these two cars could be that close.

You refuse to admit anything other than HP matters. I am showing you how reality matters. Try and take your skinny wheeler 1/2 mile plz... you wouldn't even be able to keep it on the tarmac and would probably spin out given your suspension set up... lulz..

Dragstrips are manicured surfaces. The real world isn't...

At this point. I think your drunk. See the post above you. He said the same thing I did. Just with bigger words. I tried to use the small words in a hope that you'd understand. And you still don't understand. You talking about variables. When the dude with the video was acting like there were no variables. So your still arguing a wrong headed point of view. Your also making your sound even more stupid by claiming that my car would spin. My car is built specifically to be launched. You don't launch on the skinny front tires. Do you get that at all? Why on earth would I struggle against a car not specially set up to launch from a stand still. When I have the drag launch suspension and the stickest tires made? Now think long and hard before answering.. The more you talk the dumber you sound. Do yourself a favor. And step away from the keyboard. And put the liquor down!

 

[ls6-m22]

The 1/2 mile run is for speed measurements only. I went to one and watched slower cars get the jump because it doesn't matter. They aren't timed. My money would bet that the Zl1 was traveling at least 15-20mph faster at the end and happened to be just pulling away at that point in the video. The mustang was all concerned about the jump and the ZL1 played catchup

 

[bluebeastsrt]

The 1/2 mile run is for speed measurements only. I went to one and watched slower cars get the jump because it doesn't matter. They aren't timed. My money would bet that the Zl1 was traveling at least 15-20mph faster at the end and happened to be just pulling away at that point in the video. The mustang was all concerned about the jump and the ZL1 played catchup

Exactly.

 

[w3rkn]

At this point. I think your drunk. See the post above you. He said the same thing I did. Just with bigger words. I tried to use the small words in a hope that you'd understand. And you still don't understand. You talking about variables. When the dude with the video was acting like there were no variables. So your still arguing a wrong headed point of view. Your also making your sound even more stupid by claiming that my car would spin. My car is built specifically to be launched. You don't launch on the skinny front tires. Do you get that at all? Why on earth would I struggle against a car not specially set up to launch from a stand still. When I have the drag launch suspension and the stickest tires made? Now think long and hard before answering.. The more you talk the dumber you sound. Do yourself a favor. And step away from the keyboard. And put the liquor down!

Dude, you are a gruber!

I agree with the poster above me. As Racer-X's make my point and refutes your backyard BS (of I know because I have a 9s car). His final statement reads: Finally, sure, if the race isn't max effort, near matching, perfect execution by both drivers, the outcome can vary greatly.


If you look at my first post, I was explaining those variable, which do happen in reality. Where you are refuting everything, trying to be hyper critical and spewing theoreticals, to explain how the video is not possible.

Yet, there are two videos of a Mustang doing quite well up against cars more powerful than it.



The problem you are having, is that you think, every race is cutthroat FTW type of bullshit. And fail to understand that real people don't line up within an micro inch of each at a line... only tryhards do that. Drag racing is only for boosting your own ego, not about whos car is faster. Faster always goes to who spends the most, so why even try.

Different wallet = different outcome..!
Different driver = different outcome...!

Cars don't race each other, people do.




I feel sorry for you spending 180 second all summer long to have 20 drags. It is a waste of time and money... all because you want to be the fastest person to drive your car..? With zero concerns about your braking reaction..? Or hitting an apex..?

BTW, your car would be unstable at 1/2 mile blast because you don't launch your car to 1/2 mile, you drive it. And your car is not set up for that.

 

[bluebeastsrt]

LOL I give up. The 18 GT will only lose a 1/2 mile race to a ZL1 by two car lengths. w3rkn said so.

 

[EcoVert]

Dude, you are a gruber!

I agree with the poster above me. As Racer-X's make my point and refutes your backyard BS (of I know because I have a 9s car). His final statement reads: Finally, sure, if the race isn't max effort, near matching, perfect execution by both drivers, the outcome can vary greatly.


If you look at my first post, I was explaining those variable, which do happen in reality. Where you are refuting everything, trying to be hyper critical and spewing theoreticals, to explain how the video is not possible.

Yet, there are two videos of a Mustang doing quite well up against cars more powerful than it.



The problem you are having, is that you think, every race is cutthroat FTW type of bullshit. And fail to understand that real people don't line up within an micro inch of each at a line... only tryhards do that. Drag racing is only for boosting your own ego, not about whos car is faster. Faster always goes to who spends the most, so why even try.

Different wallet = different outcome..!
Different driver = different outcome...!

Cars don't race each other, people do.




I feel sorry for you spending 180 second all summer long to have 20 drags. It is a waste of time and money... all because you want to be the fastest person to drive your car..? With zero concerns about your braking reaction..? Or hitting an apex..?

BTW, your car would be unstable at 1/2 mile blast because you don't launch your car to 1/2 mile, you drive it. And your car is not set up for that.

:hail::hail::hail::hail::hail::hail:

 

[Seceda91]

Gotta love these threads!

BlueBeast, would you even consider a GTR since you do a lot of drag racing? It's a great 1/4 car and handles well on the twisties.. Just looks dated, won't have the V8 rumble and all the import fan boys just love the damn thing.

 

[MaskedRacerX]

Gotta love these threads!

BlueBeast, would you even consider a GTR since you do a lot of drag racing? It's a great 1/4 car and handles well on the twisties.. Just looks dated, won't have the V8 rumble and all the import fan boys just love the damn thing.

There are some pricey maintenance and warranty considerations for a GT-R, and that's outside the already steep price just to purchase.

You are getting some serious exclusivity (578 sold in the US in 2017), is it worth the price? Maybe, but in that market segment you're looking at Hellcats, Z06/ZL1, Viper, some Porsches - really depends on what you dig more than just the performance.

It started out as a performance bargain like nothing else, just under $69K, but by 2012/2013 was over $100K, a 2018/19 premium can push $116K, the Track Pack is ~$130K.

 

[Seceda91]

There are some pricey maintenance and warranty considerations for a GT-R, and that's outside the already steep price just to purchase.

You are getting some serious exclusivity (578 sold in the US in 2017), is it worth the price? Maybe, but in that market segment you're looking at Hellcats, Z06/ZL1, Viper, some Porsches - really depends on what you dig more than just the performance.

It started out as a performance bargain like nothing else, just under $69K, but by 2012/2013 was over $100K, a 2018/19 premium can push $116K, the Track Pack is ~$130K.

good points and some of the older ones 09-2012 used can be found from 60k-80k..

And also i heard that if you use the launch control that comes with it you automatically void the warranty. Weird!

I don't hate the car but if I was drag racing a lot, I would def consider that car. Stock low 11's to 11 flat is impressive!

Can you honestly say that since the performance and price point is high, the GTR's competitors are Vettes, Porches, Dodge Vipers? i would say so and it'll be in another league.

 

[MaskedRacerX]

Yeah, there's some major updates across that 2009-2012, the Black Edition in those mid years (which I'm a big fan of, better than the "base" model, but not punishing like the new Track model).

I guess in terms of market and competition I was thinking in terms of both a 60-70K model and a new one ($100K+). Stock? A current Z06 or Viper easily in the same performance area and an older, sub-500 HP model might be quicker 0-60, but any other performance metric, well, it's a 9 year old vehicle.

Heck, vs. a new one, I bet you could score a CPO'ed Porsche TT and I bet you'd have a way better dealer experience vs. the place where they service Sentras.

I've had some imports, a big HP Supra, an S2000, so I can dig on things like the GT-R, but by todays price-to-performance, it's way less of a bargain.

 

[bluebeastsrt]

Gotta love these threads!

BlueBeast, would you even consider a GTR since you do a lot of drag racing? It's a great 1/4 car and handles well on the twisties.. Just looks dated, won't have the V8 rumble and all the import fan boys just love the damn thing.

Naw Im an American muscle guy. If I were to consider import. Id have to go German. 911 turbo would be top of my import list.

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