GT500 vs...

[Erik427]

Yep, I'd love to see an Ecoboost 6 in the Mustang, but not as top dog. That needs to be a big bad V8, in my book

Agreed

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[9secondko]

Being a died in the wool Ford and V8 lover, I agree about the GT500 having a V8. It just seems based on the GT and Raptor getting this V6TT, it makes me lean a little toward that side. I was honestly surprised when Ford went the V6TT on the GT.


Agree. Will be very interesting to see how this plays out and what direction Ford really heads.

Actually, the EB6 makes sense to me in the GT.

BUT in the Raptor... That just bothers me. A lot.

And the thought of it in the GT500? That's just plain wrong.

 

[9secondko]

I get what you're saying - make sure it wins. Mind the bottom line. I agree with that. Consequences - put real rear tires on the GT500. At least 12 inches wide if not more. Set the car up for serious grip and build it strong enough to handle hooking the power to the ground. Also set up really good nannies to help people get the fastest times possible from the car. It sucks to have a high HP car and lose to a car with 200 hp less because they are hooked up better.

I also agree it should have an automatic transmission. That is the preferred configuration for this kind of vehicle in my opinion.

I still think it should be 800 HP minimum.

The only way that much power is being utilized is either full slicks (not great or safe for the street) or... AWD (preferred mothod). That's the best traction "nanny" there is for the street. 800+ TTV8 power, 10 speed auto, and AWD = unbeatable.

 

[mustangletback]

I get what you're saying - make sure it wins. Mind the bottom line. I agree with that. Consequences - put real rear tires on the GT500. At least 12 inches wide if not more. Set the car up for serious grip and build it strong enough to handle hooking the power to the ground. Also set up really good nannies to help people get the fastest times possible from the car. It sucks to have a high HP car and lose to a car with 200 hp less because they are hooked up better.

I also agree it should have an automatic transmission. That is the preferred configuration for this kind of vehicle in my opinion.

I still think it should be 800 HP minimum.

i agree 100%.a minimum of 800hp,and a 950hp KR.:ford:

 

[thePill]

Whelp, the 2017 updates have already been spotted rolling around. Next up will be any new equipment, packages or models.


The 3 standing options are...

A Supercharged Coyote to hold them over until DI is ready for Ecoboost.

An Ecoboost Coyote name "Cobra Jet"

And, this is more of an addition to the Cobra Jet, a Twin Turbo Coyote named "Super Cobra Jet".

And an SC or Ecoboost (Single Turbo) GT500 would be in the 625-650hp range.

A Super Cobra Jet Twin Turbo would be the 800+hp engine. It would be drastically different then the Cobra Jet or the SC Coyote (Mach 1) internally. As much as the TT3.5 is different than an Ecoboost 3.5...

I feel the Cobra Jet and Super Cobra Jet are GT500 and GT500KR bound.


In my honest opinion, I feel the Mach 1 should just stay on the sidelines this generation. Sure, an engine named Mach 1 makes sense OR, eventually offer a "Mach 1" GT Drag Pack option... but keep it simple...

The GT is the area you have freedom to screw around in... Flexibility has always been the GT's heritage... simply apply that here.

 

[mustangletback]

Whelp, the 2017 updates have already been spotted rolling around. Next up will be any new equipment, packages or models.


The 3 standing options are...

A Supercharged Coyote to hold them over until DI is ready for Ecoboost.

An Ecoboost Coyote name "Cobra Jet"

And, this is more of an addition to the Cobra Jet, a Twin Turbo Coyote named "Super Cobra Jet".

And an SC or Ecoboost (Single Turbo) GT500 would be in the 625-650hp range.

A Super Cobra Jet Twin Turbo would be the 800+hp engine. It would be drastically different then the Cobra Jet or the SC Coyote (Mach 1) internally. As much as the TT3.5 is different than an Ecoboost 3.5...

I feel the Cobra Jet and Super Cobra Jet are GT500 and GT500KR bound.


In my honest opinion, I feel the Mach 1 should just stay on the sidelines this generation. Sure, an engine named Mach 1 makes sense OR, eventually offer a "Mach 1" GT Drag Pack option... but keep it simple...

The GT is the area you have freedom to screw around in... Flexibility has always been the GT's heritage... simply apply that here.

i hope the next GT500 gets 800hp,and the KR 900hp:ford:
:clap2::first:

 

[9secondko]

The Mach 1 space is occupied and then some by the GT350.

No need to have a GT, Mach 1, GT350, and GT500.

The Mach 1 simply is one too many without s need to exist other than its decidedly cool name.

The GT is your basic, fun drivers car with enough performance to make you happy.

The GT350 is a track monster with more than enough performance to both make and KEEP you happy.

The GT500 is just over the top, ultimate destructor, best of all worlds, road ripper, car killer, and it's meant to make and keep you happy as well as everyone else watching the car in action.

The entire spectrum of performance need is filled by these.

There is no room for a Mach 1 yet. And I'd hate to see it turned into a glorified California Special or something...

 

[thePill]

This is what the current and potentially future MSRP picture looks like. Leaving the V6 out for now and going completely off memory and rounding up/down.

EB: $27,000
EBPP: $30,500
GT: $32,500
GTPP: $35,700
GT Premium: $36,500

GT350: $50,000
GT350TP: $56,000
GT350R: $63,500

GT500: $60,000
GT500TP: $67,000
GT500KR: $73,500

As you can see, there is a $14,000 gap between the Premium and GT350. In my opinion, the GT requires the largest gap. As you can see, the very limited GT350R is actually a tad more expensive than a GT500. This, in my opinion, is acceptable as a buyer. As a Mustang fan, this will be an area of cross-shopping to many.

Anyway, if you include the Performance Pack and Premium into this GT Group, the difference is nearly $18,000 between GT and GT350.

The GT Group includes:

Performance Pack
Premium
Convertible
Black Edition
California Special
50th Anniversary Limited Edition

That already exist, and with the Options, the $18,000 provides enough room.


Now... this leaves Ford enough wiggle room for things like:

Mustang GT-R. In the spirit of the 2004 Concept, a 1LE Type Competition Package for the GT using GT350R components. $39,995-$42,995

Mustang Mach 1. If the GT500 and GT500KR go the Cobra and Super Cobra Jet route, a Supercharged Coyote may be left with an open schedule. If R&D is done, and the package fits into the $32,300-$49,995 bracket, a Mach 1 could be feasible.

Mustang Cobra Jet. Same as the Mach 1 Coyote, the Cobra Jet would be brought in later, after the limited Mach 1 run, to take advantage of the 2017 GT500's Cobra Jet engine. The Super Cobra Jet engine itself would be GT500KR exclusive. As someone here said, the GT's can adopt a SC'er fairly easily. Again, needs to be under $50,000.

Anniversary and Birthday Models. Is there a difference? No, not really... but I would make a bigger deal out of the 50, 60, 70 "Birthdays" vs. the 55, 65, 75 "Anniversaies". Under $50,000...

Drag Pack. Why not... If there is demand... I would assume the Mach 1 would cover this.


As far as an EB V6, right now, until both output AND MSRP increases for the GT, there is just no room. With a GT and GTPP at $32,300 and $35,700 and the EBPP around $30,500, there is only room for a super limited EB2.3 SVO like model. As with the GT350R and GT500, an SVO type, high(er) performance EB would need to offer exclusiveness in order to justify a $33,000-$34,000 EB2.3/2.5.

One of the main focuses in the new Ford was to eliminate model and nameplate clutter. To streamline the entire product lineup. We could be heading down the same "Name this Mustang" game they have tried to avoid.

 

[thePill]

Cobra Jet and Super Cobra Jet Programs commemorate Bob Tasca Sr. and the Turbocharging Developer Dave Born.

In the spirit of the 1968 Cobra Jet that was set to replace the GT500. The Boss 302 was in the same boat with the GT350. Carroll and Ford began feuding after that and split in 1969, finishing the 1970MY with 1969 GT500's.

Also in the spirit of the 2013 Twin Turbo "Turbo Jet". The 2013 Turbo Jet made use of existing Turbo technology... completely unfeasible at the OEM level. The Super Cobra Jet will in all honesty be an Ford GT Type "Twin" Turbo. Not a BiTurbo... The Focus RS uses an improved "Scrolling" Turbo and took HP from 310-ish to 350.


Of course, this is all just speculation...


Fitting that not only did the Boss hand the torch back to the GT350, the GT500 will finally adopt the engine that was originally intended for it back in 1968. The GT500 will replace the Cobra Jet in NHRA/IHRA BUT, Bob Tasca Sr.'s creation will live on in the Cobra Jet engine, in the GT500. Bob was likely under the impression that the 428 Cobra Jet was going straight into the 1968 GT500... Bob's first car was called the KR8 if I remember correctly... which later became the 1968 GT500KR I think.

The Mustang nameplate is almost in full harmony once again...

 

[91z28350]

I just want a twin turbo KR. Hope you are right. (and that it comes in automatic).

 

[thePill]

GT500=TT3.5/650hp
GT500KR=TT5.0/800hp

Supercharged V8 looking less and less likely.

 

[mustangletback]

GT500=TT3.5/650hp
GT500KR=TT5.0/800hp

Supercharged V8 looking less and less likely.

NNNOOOOOOOOOO,please no 3.5 in a GT500.what the hell:frusty:
:tsk::rant:

 

[thePill]

NNNOOOOOOOOOO,please no 3.5 in a GT500.what the hell:frusty:
:tsk::rant:

I'm not sure I want it either...

For a GT500, you now have 3 potential options.

1.) Supercharged 5.0 Coyote (Mach 1 Engine) around 650hp.

2.) Ecoboost 5.0 Coyote (Cobra Jet Engine) around 650hp.

3.) Twin Turbo Ecoboost 3.5 V6 (Ford GT Engine) around 650hp.


Regardless, looks like the Base GT500 will be around 650hp (620-650hp). Probably wont exceed 650.

I think the Ecoboost 5.0 Cobra Jet is the best option. If DI is causing issues then it will cause them across the board. Need some deets on the FGT TT3.5. Maybe it is using the new DPI system.


I need a break today so I will do some research into these 3 potential options. The focus would be on cost and packaging, including engine weight. Give me some time fella's... We will see what the best option is.

 

[mustangletback]

I'm not sure I want it either...

For a GT500, you now have 3 potential options.

1.) Supercharged 5.0 Coyote (Mach 1 Engine) around 650hp.

2.) Ecoboost 5.0 Coyote (Cobra Jet Engine) around 650hp.

3.) Twin Turbo Ecoboost 3.5 V6 (Ford GT Engine) around 650hp.


Regardless, looks like the Base GT500 will be around 650hp (620-650hp). Probably wont exceed 650.

I think the Ecoboost 5.0 Cobra Jet is the best option. If DI is causing issues then it will cause them across the board. Need some deets on the FGT TT3.5. Maybe it is using the new DPI system.

i think they should not start with a 650hp.the starting point should be 800,with a 850hp-900hp,KR.DI from what i have been told is a problem for bmw,and alot of other companies.i hope Ford stays away from that.i would rather not to have DI with older known reliable tech.than to have DI and have all types of issues.if they are just hell bent on a start of 650hp,call it the mach 1.:tsk::rant:

 

[mustang_guy]

I'm not sure I want it either...

For a GT500, you now have 3 potential options.

1.) Supercharged 5.0 Coyote (Mach 1 Engine) around 650hp.

2.) Ecoboost 5.0 Coyote (Cobra Jet Engine) around 650hp.

3.) Twin Turbo Ecoboost 3.5 V6 (Ford GT Engine) around 650hp.


Regardless, looks like the Base GT500 will be around 650hp (620-650hp). Probably wont exceed 650.

I think the Ecoboost 5.0 Cobra Jet is the best option. If DI is causing issues then it will cause them across the board. Need some deets on the FGT TT3.5. Maybe it is using the new DPI system.


I need a break today so I will do some research into these 3 potential options. The focus would be on cost and packaging, including engine weight. Give me some time fella's... We will see what the best option is.

That's stupid if it ends up being at 650. The trinity have 662 and was under rated about 20hp crank. Talk about a step backwards unless its like 400lbs lighter. If it doesn't get 800hp across the board for all gt500s that's something I cant wrap my head around. Unless its about covering the price gaps against the competition.

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