GT500 Track Performance

Discussion in 'Shelby GT500 Mustang' started by the5, Jul 3, 2019.

  1. Wildcardfox

    Wildcardfox Well-Known Member

    First Name:
    Brett
    Vehicle(s):
    2018 GT350R
    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2018
    Location:
    CA
    Posts:
    211
    Likes Received:
    212
    0   0   0
    #41 Wildcardfox, Jul 4, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2019
    You can relate the data of on track performance to the Carbon Fiber Package versus the other handling packages. This data was from the pre-2019 GT350 vs the GT350R, the gap has closed with the 2019 base 350 using a softer tire compound than before and aero updates, but that difference in track may translate over if you are comparing it to the GT500 packages. We won’t know the exact difference between the carbon fiber package vs other packages, but it shows the effectiveness of the track prepped car versus the non track prep cars in a road racing situation.

    Modifications will help, but comparing a factory stock car vs another factory stock car, the carbon fiber package will benefit in different MagneRide calibrations for its wider grip, lighter wheels, and more downforce compared to the drag package cars.

    Side note: I am a composites expert and carbon fiber is extremely durable. However, the choice to want them and to own them is personal. I have many friends, famous race car drivers, who have taken them off choosing to run aluminum, and it was a cost reason because of the price of a replacement if one did get damaged.
     
    machsmith likes this.
  2. Tomster

    Tomster Beware of idiots

    First Name:
    Tom
    Vehicle(s):
    2 - '17 and 1 - '18 GT350 R's
    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2016
    Location:
    FL
    Posts:
    5,568
    Likes Received:
    4,423
    0   0   0
    group 1=pros, group 2=advanced/instructor, group 3=solo/intermediate, group 4=beginner/novice
     
  3. NipSC4328

    NipSC4328 Well-Known Member

    First Name:
    Jim
    Vehicle(s):
    2017 GT350 Yellow w\ Black OTTS
    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2016
    Location:
    Northern Oklahoma
    Posts:
    303
    Likes Received:
    127
    0   0   0
  4. Tomster

    Tomster Beware of idiots

    First Name:
    Tom
    Vehicle(s):
    2 - '17 and 1 - '18 GT350 R's
    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2016
    Location:
    FL
    Posts:
    5,568
    Likes Received:
    4,423
    0   0   0
    I know.... Who would spend that kind of money on stripes?
     
    MikeyV likes this.
  5. NipSC4328

    NipSC4328 Well-Known Member

    First Name:
    Jim
    Vehicle(s):
    2017 GT350 Yellow w\ Black OTTS
    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2016
    Location:
    Northern Oklahoma
    Posts:
    303
    Likes Received:
    127
    0   0   0
    :like:
    Forgot to show sarcasm meter on! To be honest my dealer is small and will only get one base allocation, but I got it at MSRP, ftw.
     
  6. Hack

    Hack Well-Known Member

    Vehicle(s):
    2004 Z06
    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2014
    Location:
    Minneapolis
    Posts:
    8,003
    Likes Received:
    3,811
    0   0   0
    I'm definitely interested if you have any information comparing the durability of CF vs. aluminum. It's a tough comparison to make, because specifics of design, size and construction are going to be very important to strength and durability of any rim.

    There's no question that CF is lighter and a car with CF rims will be faster. The only question is whether the faster lap times are worth the potential expense.
     
  7. Wildcardfox

    Wildcardfox Well-Known Member

    First Name:
    Brett
    Vehicle(s):
    2018 GT350R
    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2018
    Location:
    CA
    Posts:
    211
    Likes Received:
    212
    0   0   0
    Just because the new GT Mk. 2 doesn’t use carbon fiber rims is not evidence that carbon rims have no racing or competition advantage or benefit.

    In the future we may see carbon rims in competition.

    A great in depth article on carbon fiber rims versus aluminum rims. Irony, this in-depth article is authored by Billy Johnson.

    https://motoiq.com/tested-carbon-revolution-carbon-fiber-wheels/
     
    BillyJRacing likes this.
  8. OP
    OP
    the5

    the5 Well-Known Member

    Vehicle(s):
    2013 GT
    Joined:
    May 26, 2015
    Location:
    United States
    Posts:
    72
    Likes Received:
    27
    0   0   0
    From what I have seen carbon wheels weigh around 17-18 Lbs. Now I can get an aftermarket Aluminum (Forgline) set that weigh around 21 Lbs. So about 5 Lbs weight savings per wheel or 20Lbs all around.

    Something some people don't realize is the weight of tire is usually way more then the wheel. The 305 Sport cup 2 are 29lbs each. https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tire...all=Blackwall&partnum=03YR0PSC2XLV7&tab=Specs

    Now a true racing slick is about 10 Lbs Lighter ! So more weight savings in the tire then the wheel.

    Now heres the fun part, I have two Boss 302R's, One weighs about 150 lbs more than the other. Now given any day on the same tires One could be fast than the other SOLEY due to setup. So When someone says the "need" carbon wheels, They can probably find more time twisting knobs on shock setup.
     
  9. Epiphany

    Epiphany Well-Known Member

    Vehicle(s):
    Quick
    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2015
    Location:
    Global
    Posts:
    3,533
    Likes Received:
    4,311
    0   0   0
    What would have been ironic is if that article was chock full of negatives regarding Carbon Revolution's wheels. Strangely enough, I sense that would never have happened, ever.
     
  10. Grey03

    Grey03 Well-Known Member

    Vehicle(s):
    2017 Raptor, 2017 Lincoln MKZ 3.0, 2019 Mustang GT
    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2014
    Location:
    Ohio
    Posts:
    161
    Likes Received:
    157
    0   0   0
    Festival of Speed. Skip to 5:22 and again at 6:32 Tiny bit of GT500 action.

     
  11. BmacIL

    BmacIL Enginerd

    Vehicle(s):
    2015 Guard GT Base, M/T
    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2014
    Location:
    Naperville, IL
    Posts:
    13,659
    Likes Received:
    7,679
    Garage Profiles:
    1
    Rating:
    100%
    3   0   0
    I'd definitely rather have a set of Forgelines than the CF wheels.
     
    1mic, Epiphany and jvandy50 like this.
  12. Hack

    Hack Well-Known Member

    Vehicle(s):
    2004 Z06
    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2014
    Location:
    Minneapolis
    Posts:
    8,003
    Likes Received:
    3,811
    0   0   0
    Interesting article, seems like the light weight is only a small part of the benefits of using a carbon fiber rim.

    For how much Forgelines cost, if I had the dough I would go with a CF rim. Based on the reactions of the automotive press when they drove the GT350 R, CF rims make a car much more enjoyable to drive from a performance perspective.
     
    nametoshowothers and machsmith like this.
  13. Epiphany

    Epiphany Well-Known Member

    Vehicle(s):
    Quick
    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2015
    Location:
    Global
    Posts:
    3,533
    Likes Received:
    4,311
    0   0   0
    Interesting. I much prefer a Forgeline. I talked to Dean Martin about them and he couldn't say enough good things about them on their GT4 cars. I watched them take a beating, in the flesh, at tracks across the country (IMSA Continental Series) in the hands of some very talented professional drivers and during endless pit changes. The delicacy that is a CF wheel in an actual race environment like that would quickly sour under duress and for me that is a complete turnoff. So is the exorbitant pricetag.
     
    BmacIL and the5 like this.
  14. btown93

    btown93 Well-Known Member

    Vehicle(s):
    2017 GT350
    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2015
    Location:
    MA
    Posts:
    487
    Likes Received:
    324
    0   0   0
    On Billy Johnson's IG someone asked why it (GT mk II) didn't have carbon wheels. He answered that the "car has slicks and Michelin does not make 20" slicks to fit on the carbon wheels"
     
  15. OP
    OP
    the5

    the5 Well-Known Member

    Vehicle(s):
    2013 GT
    Joined:
    May 26, 2015
    Location:
    United States
    Posts:
    72
    Likes Received:
    27
    0   0   0
    Yet the GT350 uses the same tire on both the Carbon and Aluminum wheels.

    And even it was true its just another reason you DON'T want carbon wheels for REAL track use, since they would require a bespoke tire and only that tire.
     
    Epiphany likes this.
  16. Hack

    Hack Well-Known Member

    Vehicle(s):
    2004 Z06
    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2014
    Location:
    Minneapolis
    Posts:
    8,003
    Likes Received:
    3,811
    0   0   0
    Ah, so you have evidence that CF rims are delicate! I've never seen any evidence like that, so my assumption was that the info I saw from Ford was correct. IIRC Ford said the CF rims are stronger and more durable than aluminum.
     
    nametoshowothers likes this.
  17. Epiphany

    Epiphany Well-Known Member

    Vehicle(s):
    Quick
    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2015
    Location:
    Global
    Posts:
    3,533
    Likes Received:
    4,311
    0   0   0
    "Stronger" is a relative term. We've all see numerous examples here of damaged CF wheels, some cosmetic, some that could case structural concern. In most every case - big money for repairs and that's if they can be repaired at all. Even worse, having to worry each and every time you need new rubber mounted on them that the tire shop you chose is competent and has experience in working with CF wheels - I'll pass, thank you.

    The cost to benefit for someone not running them 10/10ths is rather high. They are beneficial in terms of performance, no doubt, but a bit hard on the pocketbook both initially as well as down the road. Hence why I'd rather stick to a conventional forging.

    Now as far as the GT4 wing out back - I'm all for it. It can be adjusted to one of two positions but beyond that it is more or less fixed and never sees duty like a CF wheel does. I saw smashed Multimatic canards and CF splitters but never a wing.
     
    jvandy50, BmacIL and obspsd like this.
  18. jvandy50

    jvandy50 H3249

    First Name:
    jason
    Vehicle(s):
    10 JKU, 18 ZL1-1LE
    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2015
    Location:
    AR
    Posts:
    1,910
    Likes Received:
    761
    Rating:
    100%
    1   0   0
    I have trouble finding a shop to balance beadlocks here and they won’t even consider mounting them. I even had one turn down my project 6GR wheels for fear of damage...I’d bet money i would have to go to a bigger city (1.5hrs) just to find someone to touch these carbons
     
    Epiphany likes this.
  19. Hack

    Hack Well-Known Member

    Vehicle(s):
    2004 Z06
    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2014
    Location:
    Minneapolis
    Posts:
    8,003
    Likes Received:
    3,811
    0   0   0
    I've never seen a structurally damaged CF rim like I've seen structural damage on aluminum rims. I've seen many aluminum rims actually broken into multiple pieces. You are changing the discussion to cost, serviceability and cosmetic damage rather than talk about the strength of the rims.

    I don't disagree that cost is a concern and so many people would stay away just because of that concern. But, I still haven't seen any evidence that specifically Ford's CF rims in the GT350R and the GT500 are delicate.

    Also, I get that you are being illustrative, but what's up with the fractions? 10/10ths isn't even possible to run. No one in the world has ever run 10/10ths for more than a split second (they were at 10/10ths and then they crashed). IMO it just sounds like you don't understand how fractions work.
     
  20. Epiphany

    Epiphany Well-Known Member

    Vehicle(s):
    Quick
    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2015
    Location:
    Global
    Posts:
    3,533
    Likes Received:
    4,311
    0   0   0
    I laid out why cost is a big factor in the choice to either use or shelve a set of high dollar CF wheels. No hidden agenda there or attempt to shift the crux of the discussion.

    Delicate? Sure they are. Their advantage over that of an aluminum wheel besides weight reduction is tensile strength where they do very well. Yet they are very poor when it comes to toughness (or hardness). They don't perform very well when it comes to abrasion - witness the circumferential grooves cut into the barrel of a given CF wheel when a rock is trapped under the caliper. You don't have to cut very deep before cutting through any number of layers which can also lead to delamination.

    What's up with fractions and my understand as to how they work? Lol, son you are apparently out of the loop as to how the 10/10ths fraction is used with respect to how an automobile can be driven, typically in an on-track environment. Plenty of drivers have pushed a given car to as far as it can be pushed for more than "split second." I'd suggest you need a refresher in this case. Try an IMSA race weekend and see drivers push a car (seriously prepped at that) as far as it can go.

    Hack - I get it, you're a contrarian. Spend some time embedded with a team in a serious race environment. Acquire a sense as to cost for a given race weekend. You'll see why teams don't use fiber when it comes to rolling stock. They sure do look pretty on a street car though!
     
    1mic likes this.
Loading...

Share This Page