GT350 will live past 2019 with GT500 engine block!

[Spart]

What he said.

I don't think the oil consumption issues in the Voodoo (leading to the many documented engine replacements) have anything to do with the FPC.

Ford is also having issues with the PTWA liners in the new 5.0.

Hopefully they're getting this tech to a point where the reliability will be the same as a conventional cylinder liner.

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[bauern]

No, the CPC requires different cams, so the cams will be different. I would also bet that the valvetrain will have other differences since the engine redline will be lower. And the pistons will be different - I expect somewhat lower compression in the GT500 compared to the GT350. Possibly the rods might be different as well.

Curious to see if the CPC and cams become less expensive now that they are moving into a factory production engine.

 

[wangbul]

Hey guys, I was reading one of the multiple GT500 articles out there that rehash what little we actually know about that car, when a specific bit of info from Mustang Chief Engineer Carl Widdman caught my eye:

"Widmann did, however, tell us that the GT500’s block will actually make it into the GT350 once it’s in production."

Since we're months away from the GT500 starting production, this implies that the GT350 will also continue into 2020, and likely beyond. I'll be keenly interested in how the new block benefits the GT350, and if they continue to tweak it even with the GT500 on the scene. Could we even see more power out of the box with this development?

With this automatic only mandate on the GT500 so far, and because I think the 350 is the cleaner, nicer looking car, my preference remains with the 350 even if it gets eclipsed by it's big brother in the speed and features department.

Source:

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-sh...t500-engineering-details/?src=socialflowFBRAT

I'm not sure how that is a good news. What's the difference between GT500 and GT350 if they both have same engines? It just makes GT350 poor man's GT500. The thing that makes GT350 special is flat plane crank. From the perspective of 2015-2019 GT350 it is a good news since the resale value will go up once they stop production of flat plane crank GT350. Really a good news for current GT350 owners. It sure will be a collector's item. Not GT500 with automatic paddle shifters. Lame.

 

[Spart]

I'm not sure how that is a good news. What's the difference between GT500 and GT350 if they both have same engines? It just makes GT350 poor man's GT500. The thing that makes GT350 special is flat plane crank. From the perspective of 2015-2019 GT350 it is a good news since the resale value will go up once they stop production of flat plane crank GT350. Really a good news for current GT350 owners. It sure will be a collector's item. Not GT500 with automatic paddle shifters. Lame.

No, just no. Please see the barney speed breakdown: https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/th...gt500-engine-block.115962/page-7#post-2443749

I would have never guessed this many people on an enthusiast's forum wouldn't know what an engine block is.

 

[raiderjatt02]

No, just no. Please see the barney speed breakdown: https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/th...gt500-engine-block.115962/page-7#post-2443749

I would have never guessed this many people on an enthusiast's forum wouldn't know what an engine block is.

It's honestly blowing my mind right now. I can't believe people think sharing the engine block means they're not using a FPC anymore.

 

[JAJ]

The folks who are confused don't realize that the term "engine block" refers only to the empty block casting. From what they're saying, I think they believe that the "block" is the complete assembly above the oil pan and below the cylinder heads.

 

[biminiLX]

So does anyone have any good info if they’ll be building the GT350 in 2020 or is 2019 the final year?
-J

 

[Alain]

So does anyone have any good info if they’ll be building the GT350 in 2020 or is 2019 the final year?
-J

If they stated that they plan on using the new GT500 block in the GT350 once the new GT 500 is released then all signs point to the GT 350 being produced in 2020.

My concern is them stopping the production of the 350R.

 

[biminiLX]

If they stated that they plan on using the new GT500 block in the GT350 once the new GT 500 is released then all signs point to the GT 350 being produced in 2020.

My concern is them stopping the production of the 350R.

Agreed. As someone who has to make a decision on an allocation of a 2019 R within the next few days, it makes it an easy decision if 2019 is the last year of the 350R.
If they’re not going to do a GT500R, then maybe 2020 is GT350/500 only, without any R cars.
-J

 

[Alain]

I hope 2 things happen next year.
1- Ford continues to make the 350R
2- The use of the GT500 engine block on the 350 brigs along with it new upgraded internal of some sort.

Hopefully that fixes the oil issue with the Voodoo. I can’t bring myself to drop 70K on an engine that might be as good as a paper weight when the warranty expires and Ford refuses to fix any oil issues after the 5 year mark.

And forget about selling the car once it’s out of warranty. I wouldn’t buy a used one if it didn’t have a warranty attached to it.

 

[JAJ]

I hope 2 things happen next year.
1- Ford continues to make the 350R
2- The use of the GT500 engine block on the 350 brigs along with it new upgraded internal of some sort.

Hopefully that fixes the oil issue with the Voodoo. I can’t bring myself to drop 70K on an engine that might be as good as a paper weight when the warranty expires and Ford refuses to fix any oil issues after the 5 year mark.

And forget about selling the car once it’s out of warranty. I wouldn’t buy a used one if it didn’t have a warranty attached to it.

Two things - first, it's unlikely that changing the block will fix any problems that the GT350 might have. Second, the engine is only $20k, so it's not so bad, actually.

 

[Alain]

Two things - first, it's unlikely that changing the block will fix any problems that the GT350 might have. Second, the engine is only $20k, so it's not so bad, actually.

I agree with you on your first point. The changing of the block probably won’t fix anything.

What I hope ford ends up doing is changing the block AS WELL as some of the internals. I can see them using the tried and true method of advertising......”newly redesigned Voodoo for the 2020 GT 350”.

While we all rejoice that whatever flaw in the original motor might be fixed, Ford gets away with never explaining what the issue was for fear of getting crushed by the media and the rest of the automotive world.

On your second point. I differ from you, I’m not ok with the possibility of having to replace a motor after 5 years of ownership regardless of mileage/use.

20K is a lot of money for most of us man.

Also, I believe Resale value on these cars is going to change drastically in a bad way once the warranties start to expire, due to the 5 years passing or the mileage.

I just don’t see people looking to spend money on these cars after warranties expire without having a clear understanding of what is causing these oil consumption issues.

Time will tell.

 

[sumfoo1]

Ok changing a block will have huge implications on the engine as a whole and possible oil consumption.

How you can say it won’t affect the issues people are worried about with the gt350 sort of baffles me.

The block has all the oiling provisions in it, as well as oil returns. It also affects how the rings interact with the bore. If the bore is more or less stable over a temp range because of increased hardness, thickness, etc that will drastically affect blow by and crank case pressure for an engine that either hasn’t reached its steady state setpoint or over temps at all.

My point being that my guess is the block probably got reinforced for the boosted application. Which should keep the bore more stable. They may have had cooling concerns as well with the supercharged engine and thus may have made changes to increase cooling capacity too.

If the oe engineers made changes that would affect the expansion curve of the engine and bore shape with temperature at all, I promise you they either developed a new ring set for the gt350 as well possibly even an entirely new piston or, they designed all the changes to work well with the current ring set (which is doubtful being that I bet the gt500 engine has an entirely different piston ring set which they probably designed around and made some changes to make it work for the gt350.

I promise you they atleast studied the ring gap if nothing else to make sure it didn’t need adjusting.

TLDR any strength or material changes in the block will affect the ring/bore interface and will probably affect crank case pressure and any blow by issues (one way or another) it will also affect oil distribution to help with bearing failures and many other possible issues.

Just my $0.02

 

[Dominator961]

Jesus Christ
This ridiculous thread needs to die.

 

[Alain]

Ok changing a block will have huge implications on the engine as a whole and possible oil consumption.

How you can say it won’t affect the issues people are worried about with the gt350 sort of baffles me.

The block has all the oiling provisions in it, as well as oil returns. It also affects how the rings interact with the bore. If the bore is more or less stable over a temp range because of increased hardness, thickness, etc that will drastically affect blow by and crank case pressure for an engine that either hasn’t reached its steady state setpoint or over temps at all.

My point being that my guess is the block probably got reinforced for the boosted application. Which should keep the bore more stable. They may have had cooling concerns as well with the supercharged engine and thus may have made changes to increase cooling capacity too.

If the oe engineers made changes that would affect the expansion curve of the engine and bore shape with temperature at all, I promise you they either developed a new ring set for the gt350 as well possibly even an entirely new piston or, they designed all the changes to work well with the current ring set (which is doubtful being that I bet the gt500 engine has an entirely different piston ring set which they probably designed around and made some changes to make it work for the gt350.

I promise you they atleast studied the ring gap if nothing else to make sure it didn’t need adjusting.

TLDR any strength or material changes in the block will affect the ring/bore interface and will probably affect crank case pressure and any blow by issues (one way or another) it will also affect oil distribution to help with bearing failures and many other possible issues.

Just my $0.02

Well, this makes a ton of sense. I didn’t think enough about the changing of the 350 block in order to realize that what you are saying is correct.

The block is the foundation of the motor. Everything from cooling, oil use and the pressures created during the combustion process have an impact on AND are impacted by the engine block and it’s design.

I hope you are right man, there are lots of people like me who are waiting in the wings to see what comes out of this voodoo engine block replacement. Ford is in a world of hurt right now financially speaking, I hope that doesn’t have an impact on how they move forward with these two mustangs.

There are also a lot of people who bought the first iteration of the voodoo motor who are going to be upset if there are other internal upgrades other than just a new block.

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