GT350 vs. Z/28

[Norm Peterson]

The way I read the 2014 Solo rules, Stock has already been renamed Street R. Only Super Street R will continue to exist after 2014, as all the other Street R classes are annotated with *Not offered after 2014* in Appendix A (Automobile Classes).

But even Super Street R has no guarantee past 2016 . . .

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PARTICIPATION REQUIREMENT (EFFECTIVE 01/01/2015)​

If in two (2) consecutive SCCA® Solo® National Championships class SSR fails to achieve attendance of 35 total participants in both Open and Ladies, the class will be eliminated the following year.​

Norm

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[w3rkn]

Pill, who cares what the Z28 is legal for or not? Who cares what the Boss is legal to race or not?
What we care about is building the best performance street car for the least amount of money. Legal racing certs dont mean anything to the performance of a car on the street!:frusty:

We both understand the GM is manipulating/fabricating times to make the Z28 seem faster than it is. I wonder if we will ever see a "real" test(one that is not overlooked and controlled be GM, or any manufacturer) on the track performance of the Z28?

In my mind the Z28 is a fail. GM is marketing the wrong car in the wrong manner. They should be marketing the 1LE.:gossip:

Keep banging your head against the wall...


What you are asking for, is clearly right in front of you. The "best performance street car" is tested on the track, against other suitors. To make sure these "others" don't cheat, they certify, etc.

The "real test" is every weekend, at the tracks & races. You need certs for that. Do you sport?

 

[thePill]

We toyed with the idea of a 5th Gen competition Camaro, definitely not a z28. It's a fools car and never intended for racing. It was marketed as such but it was never built with the racer in mind. You can argue about track days, to me, if your still on the track day only level, you probably can't handle an SS. Track days are non-competitive but fun, good practice for the circuit when Sunday comes. A warranty is of no concern to me, nor should it to anyone even semi-serious. Once the track day becomes a timed event, your warranty goes out the window anyway... Mustang or Camaro. If your boo hooing about a warranty on a track car, your probably a forum racer and really have no real argument here. Most Camaro fans, especially the ones nested at C5, had little or no idea the z28 needed to meet class rules and regulation. Some hopeful buyers are even toying with the possibility of a steel rotor swap... Your about to remove a large portion of the MSRP and flush it down the toilet. According to some members over there, it's nearly $6000 for replacement rotors and $1600 for replacement pads. That is sad... I don't think we will see many z28's on track days either, not at the cost of consumables. Yeah, they last a long time... Well, at least Porsche's do... I just can't justify that price for open track and wave by passing.

In an SCCA season opener, we didn't see any 5th Gens running at all. In 2012, the 1LE was there and set a track record, it was a technicality since it was set on a solo lap but, it was marketed by Chevy as if they did beat the track record. Lap records at The Beav' are set during competition.

Some bad news though, our '99 4th Gen SS was wrecked on Saturday during practice, the damage is kinda bad but nothing we can't fix. Worked all night, missed qualifing and had to start 13th. Ended up 5th in a double feature on Sunday...

We will be returning in June, same track... SCCA AS.

I said years ago, after our test, the 5th Gen is an awful platform to be serious in. It's a clown shoe on the wrong foot. I can't even say the '12 was any better, improved yes, changing the tide? Not even close.

I will openly laugh at anyone tootin' around in a 4100lbs z28 and thinking that it's progression. Your looking at a huge cost when running track, I highly doubt your typical Camaro5 amateur is going to be comfortable with those prices. If you are a Camaro fan, I suggest you try a 4th Gen before laying down $80,000 for a idiotic marketing creation. It's just stupidity... I can't say it's a decent street car either, I wouldn't think it would be without at least the speakers. You have maybe one or two morons that are trying to place this thing somewhere, wherever... You may as well forget SCCA, they are not really too concerned about a car the manufacturer won't sanction. They have little or no idea what a z28 is, what it's equipped with or what it's capable of...

Good job Chevy, that's a fine way to treat your hardcore base. If you had no idea this thing would class without some big changes, your not hardcore anyway...

Save your money, buy a '99-'02 Camaro, it won't hurt as much when you need to install a bar or cage.

Warranty? I don't think people have any idea how much damage is done to a car (especially a fat ass 5th Gen) while in traffic. Paint chips, rubber, rocks, fod and debris.

I need to bring this up, a guy over yonder, Zfat... If he is serious, and he claims to be, he can't be serious about a 4100lbs race weight... Where do you race such a pig???

...and how can anyone take that a person like that serious. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY, would consider that a competitive plus. Those $10,000 tires go bye bye in a Sat/Sun event. Your tires are greasy by race time... I blame stupidity for low car counts, invest $80,000 and not have $$$ to change brakes and tires.

Anyway, I will have the aftermath pics of our Camaro once it gets home. Such a large amount of damage done in basically an open track practice. One tire touched the grass and poof... It was gone... No imagine that being an $80,000 mistake (that's a mistake made on purchase). Kids talk big but rarely take any real action...

Edit: A huge Thank you to Advance Auto in New Castle for the expeditied and overnight shipping of the parts.

 

[thePill]

The way I read the 2014 Solo rules, Stock has already been renamed Street R. Only Super Street R will continue to exist after 2014, as all the other Street R classes are annotated with *Not offered after 2014* in Appendix A (Automobile Classes).

But even Super Street R has no guarantee past 2016 . . .


Norm

Just trial classes? Why is there a need for confusion every f***in' February!!!

It's either comply or go to NASA...

Who is realistically going to spend money on a class that is already slated to be cut?

 

[Gman11Gt]

The Z28 is just a "cheap trick" by GM. Throw some expensive brakes and tires on it and call it a day..It appears to be a bargain on paper, until you really dig into it deep and find out you can't race it anywhere but your back yard. If anything, GM needs to come up with better designs on there current cars. The updated Cruze looks to be a step backwards while the Malibu..well its a Malibu..lol It can't sell in volume. The most important mainstream cars and they still manage to stink up the show.

Anyways, carry on with this Pill, I can't wait for the performance versions of the S550 to come out. It should put the Z28 out to pasture.

 

[Norm Peterson]

Just trial classes? Why is there a need for confusion every f***in' February!!!

It's either comply or go to NASA...

Who is realistically going to spend money on a class that is already slated to be cut?

Not sure what you mean by "trial classes". Street R is what used to be Stock, so it's nothing more than a name change there. Yeah, after that it starts sounding a little wonky with only one of the original Stock classes surviving beyond this year.

My best guess is that the concept that "stock class cars should be required to run on "real street" tires finally got enough traction (pun sort of intentional). People got a year's heads-up to either move back to said real street tires (and do whatever testing & retuning to suit) or plan on modifying more extensively and move up to Street Prepared. But the bigger-buck SS folks cried long enough and loud enough to get to keep their R-comps while still remaining in what's nominally an entry-level classification.


As far as "track day only" goes, you can get into that for considerably less investment than it would take to play at a wheel to wheel level with the same car, and that's got appeal for quite a lot of people, me included. Assuming you don't do anything too stupid, you can even choose to drive your "race track car" home and off to work or wherever come Monday. Really, that's hardly any different from any casual drag racer's street/strip car except you get to run yours hard for 20 minutes at a time instead of 12 seconds.

Run what you brung, bring what you want to run.


Norm

 

[garagelogic]

It's going to be pretty quiet in here when all the Camaro guys are down at MeToo Fest in Texas in a few days.

 

[thePill]

According to the Steel City Region, it will make sanctioning the z28 much easier if Chevy makes an effort to sanction the car. Chevy took some initiative with the 1LE in T2, there was even an event, in some respect, to usher in the 1LE right here at my home track.

There is very little known about the z28 at the Regional level and only a place holder entry has been set by the SCCA in a single class. There is an assumption that the z28 is nearly identical to the 1LE...

...this is why I think that is...

I actually brought this up a while ago, I'll see if I can dig it up. I seen the 1LE's Beaver Run debut. On the listing, the SCCA had it listed as the z28. I'm being serious, it was called a z28. Mistakenly or purposely, it is what it is. The confusion could be that the 1LE and z28 are assumed to be almost the same thing. Where the GS and Z06 had a similar relationship, I believe the Camaro's are presumed to be similar. Western Washington is under the impression the car is similar in performance and equipment as the ZL1 AND, even the GT500/Boss 302.

What Chevy needs to do is, take some strides to provide the SCCA with information on the 2014 z28. Without some assistance from the manufacturer, regional offices are left to deal with the car on a case by case basis... In this case, it will not be permitted to register and race.

What you guys NEED to do is, contact your local regional office immediately. Inquire about the z28 and potential class information if you intend on racing the car. The SCCA, especially at the Regional level, has little or no concern about a single vehicle and what it's issues are. If Team Camaro made no efforts to sanction the car, ANYWHERE, the Regional offices are not gonna give two sh!ts about it either. As they see it, very little will actually be attending events this season... That assumption comes from their experience with other 5th Gens, not many actually race. It's up to us to contact our local offices and be proactive. I have already started the process here in Steel City, I will see how far I can take this within the region.

What I need is a spread sheet with as much info as I can squeeze onto a page, and as many pages as I can get. Basically, I need to go through the motions a manufacturer does when applying for a particular class. There is nothing wrong with asking the question and, I could possibly get some movement as well.

Bottom line; without Chevy, we are on our own...


(End)

 

[Fox9350]

Apologize if people already posted the numbers. I saw a mediocre test in one mag but today I saw 12.3 @ 117..... Is that good? What's the current GT500 run? I was In a rush at airport and didn't see any other testing numbers, as I know the Z28 is more geared for track than drag strip right?

 

[IGJoe2192]

I agree Norm. If Ford had offered a street version of the Boss 302 with fewer accessories I would have bought that version. I rarely use the AC, never use the cruise control, could care less about power windows and locks. Today's buyer is spoiled, they want all the power and speed and luxury too.

I recently bought a '00 Miata. No ABS, TCS, AST, ETC, XYZ.... and I love it. Just me and the car, haven't driven the Boss in over a week!

SMH, If you only knew the type of buyer I was.... The Z/28 sucks for $75k. My gripe is that the Z/28 costs so damn much, I dont see where the extra 40K has come from, all they added was CC brakes and sticky tires. They took more out of the car than they put in and they are charging you more. I don't see it as a performance bargain what so ever. At least Ford made the Boss302 attainable. Trust me, I would love to have a striped down version of the Mustang, but I don't get where that extra cost comes from. Maybe I am a cheap arse or maybe I don't like to see my money go towards nothing.

 

[IGJoe2192]

Apologize if people already posted the numbers. I saw a mediocre test in one mag but today I saw 12.3 @ 117..... Is that good? What's the current GT500 run? I was In a rush at airport and didn't see any other testing numbers, as I know the Z28 is more geared for track than drag strip right?

11.7

 

[Norm Peterson]

SMH, If you only knew the type of buyer I was.... The Z/28 sucks for $75k. My gripe is that the Z/28 costs so damn much, I dont see where the extra 40K has come from, all they added was CC brakes and sticky tires. They took more out of the car than they put in and they are charging you more. I don't see it as a performance bargain what so ever. At least Ford made the Boss302 attainable. Trust me, I would love to have a striped down version of the Mustang, but I don't get where that extra cost comes from. Maybe I am a cheap arse or maybe I don't like to see my money go towards nothing.

I suspect that taking stuff out is not exactly a cost-saver when you're faced with spreading re-certification expenses for all the stuff that's different out over only a few units (this might include having to consider changes due to the absence of the stuff that's now missing). Definitely not the same as building your own one-off . . . although if you paid yourself decent wages for all the hours it'd take you from planning to finished product to fully "z/28-ize" an SS there might not be as much difference as you think. And unless you're single and unattached (or don't mind the risk of soon having that status), expenses and time spent successfully presenting a "business case" need to have a price tag hung on them as well.


Norm

 

[Fox9350]

Guess I coulda just used google. Saw 11.6 @ 125 and 11.5 posted elsewhere for the GT 500

 

[Taneras]

I suspect that taking stuff out is not exactly a cost-saver when you're faced with spreading re-certification expenses for all the stuff that's different out over only a few units (this might include having to consider changes due to the absence of the stuff that's now missing). Definitely not the same as building your own one-off . . . although if you paid yourself decent wages for all the hours it'd take you from planning to finished product to fully "z/28-ize" an SS there might not be as much difference as you think. And unless you're single and unattached (or don't mind the risk of soon having that status), expenses and time spent successfully presenting a "business case" need to have a price tag hung on them as well.


Norm

It's a tough sell on the Z28 when the C7's are performing so well for less money. And I could understand if a different automaker was making the vets, but it seems almost like cannibalism to do what Chevy is doing. Imagine if Ford make a new car that was suppose to be a sports car but ended up being more expensive than the mustang and not as fast.

 

[GMAN6]

Guess I coulda just used google. Saw 11.6 @ 125 and 11.5 posted elsewhere for the GT 500

Yeah, 12.3 on the strip is about the same as a Boss and way slower than a GT500

I suppose all around the Z28 ties the Boss on the strip and beats it on the track, but gets smoked by the GT500 on the strip and ties on the track.
So I guess you aren't really getting much for 80K....

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