GT350 vs. Z/28

[thePill]

A new TV show built these custom Camaros. I really like the Bumblebee one, look at the fender flares. I think the blue one could make a decent LS9 Camaro. Worth a look... The Yellow ones fascia is pretty awesome, no cooling but, it can be fabricated.

Not feeling the size of the 5th Gen. They are as big as Silverado's!

From GM Authority

Bet cha' won't make an LS9 Camaro, Chickens, bock...bock, bock... I like how they incorporated so C7 in the blue ones rear (pic not available). The rear 3/4 on Bumblebee #17 kinda look s like a truck bed. Doesn't the LS9 have a dual intake tube in the rear of the SC? Couldn't that blue ones hood support that as is?

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[on d bit]

LSA the ZL1 and CTSV?
LS9 the ZR1?

The issue is not the power but the too much size, too much weight, terrible ergonomics, and terrible interior!

 

[thePill]

LSA the ZL1 and CTSV?
LS9 the ZR1?

The issue is not the power but the too much size, too much weight, terrible ergonomics, and terrible interior!

I say they should flip the script and go back into drag racing. Drop people's jaws with an LS9 (yet to be named) Camaro. At a $10,000 premium over a ZL1... Try and use some z28 weight savings, you save 40lbs in the engine right off the bat.

A 3999lbs (lol) 600 and say... 45 maybe 50... Maybe try and break the GT500's 662???

That would be ballsy...

If they can get one out for a MY15 (as late as a late Summer 2015 release) I'll give them my approval for a 2014 GT500 comparison. I think the GT500 is phenomenal and does take some time to respond. F@&? Nurburgring, get back to the strip!!!

I got lots of ideas for this project.

 

[thePill]

GOT HEATSOAK???

Is this Motor Trend dipping the car between laps to cool that 1.9 down? Maybe a TSB was issued and this was Chevy's solution.

Gawd!!! It looks like a Hippo!!! Hahahaha!!!

 

[thePill]

Man, they are smacking that Lowdown guy around over on C5 about engine efficiency. It got me thinking, what I personally want out of the GT350. I would like to see PTWA Cylinders used on the 5.0 for the first time. It wouldn't matter to me if they did a recast of the Coyote and kept the displacement at 5.0. However, for some reason, I want to see a Coyote big brother like the 5.8 was to the 5.4. I really like the sound of a 5.5... I would love to see a GT350 with a PTWA Coyote 5.5 liter V8.

The Coyote has already been casted to accept Direct Injection. As it sits right now, the Coyote is at 428.8lbs, that's with an 8 quart capacity. DI will add about 25lbs. Does the Mustang need DI? I'd say it should start on the GT350 and trickle down to everything else. I would love to see a PTWA 5.0 and 5.5 in the Mustang lineup. That means there is room for an Ecoboost 5.0 and a Supercharged 5.5!!!

Lol!!! Could the GT500 once again be powered by a Supercharged 5.4, only this time a Coyote based V8? Irony?

 

[lil=john]

5.5 in a coyote? probably doable if no F.I is introduced. Add F.I then add a compact graphite block(Gt500). On a coyote The limit is in the 900sh rwhp area. Then they want to pop the block.

 

[thePill]

Ford Motor Company and IMSA announced an Automotive Partnership on the 7th of April. Expect to see the Mustang showcased in IMSA pretty hard. Lots of R&D opportunities just opened up for Ford and Ford Racing, Roush as well... The S550 will be dominant in IMSA... This partnership applies die toy to TUDOR and Continental Tire Series.

A report said that the Mustang won 38 races and had 22 pole position starts in Continental Tire. That's gonna be a hard number to beat...

 

[thePill]

Some updates on the situation as of today...

Chevy has announced it sold all 500 of it's 2014 z28's. That was pretty fast... I'm glad they were rewarded to their fraud. Running a caged car at Nurburgring makes sense, it is to protect the driver from speeds of 70-150mph. What we are seeing at the Ring could possibly be a more efficient cage design. Most cars running sub 8 minute laps need that additional support to run the Ring. Imagine the weight of a z28 with driver and say, at least a 6 point roll bar of .120, about 100lbs. We are looking at a 4100lbs with R rubber, pulling over 1.5 G's in the corner at 70-110mph. The z28 uses the basic Camaro IRS ya' know, it's a Luxury Sedan style IRS. The geometry changes are phenomenal. They were just unbelievable on the 2010 SS, the '13 was better with the plant but the diamonding was just as severe. Unless they added a Sub Frame connector in there (and I don't think I saw one), that IRS and Mac P system are just doing diamonds. With this things tire and grip capabilities and it's shear mass and weight, corner speeds will be twisting this Zeta up.

I still haven't really heard of any progress in Motorsports and here is why. The rules still have not changes on Carbon Ceramic Brakes in the SCCA, IMSA or the FIA. Here's another issue, the weight of the required cage its self. The z28 is allowed a minimum race weight of 3500lbs in a class which is unachievable with a driver, gas and a 100-150lbs roll bar/cage. A 4100lbs z28 will not do well IF the SCCA lets them keep the CC brakes. This is highly unlikely... The Z06, GTR, M3, Porsche and all others were not permitted CC brakes, I doubt the z28 will either.

It was brought to my attention that Ford and IMSA are now part of an Automotive Partnership. I expect some movement on Multimatic's 4th place standing overall. I am willing to bet they take out the S197 with a CTGS Championship. Racers Edge is in 2nd with his Boss 302... Roush is currently in S550 development.

Chevy has announced that the z28 sold out... and they want to make even more next year... There are some people that bought into a caged Nurburgring run and a race car you can't race marketing angle. I feel most will be stored, none will be raced competitively and very few will be tracked.

There was also a comment about Team Camaro running a ZL1 with z28 tires AND, they said it still wasn't faster. It's possible... the brakes are very good but, if the track is a horsepower track, I bet the ZL1 can handle it. Not to mention this is probably just more marketing aimed directly at the many doubts some fans have. They really kinda sh!t on the ZL1 and the owners didn't they? The car never lived up to its advertised times, could only match the GT500 at the track not "dominate" it and just the comments in general. I imagine they will be pissin' on z28 owners once the LS9 Camaro comes out.

Nurburgring this Spring? I hope so, I want to actually get a look at the cage they run. The spotted mules had hefty cages in them, and we never, EVER get to see the actual z28 that lapped the Ring. We got a Milford imposter, painted Silver and had a Ring sticker on the back. It didn't even have a 3 or 5 point harness... Just an OEM lap and shoulder belt!!! Good Lord!!! I hate to say this fella's but, you've been had. It was a marketing exercise based mostly on Nurburgring and when they barely managed to beat the ZL1's time, it was crickets... I am on board with Nurburgring testing and if your competing with other manufacturers times there, that's all in good fun. Don't market times from a car that has been prepped for a 160mph crash. That is no longer the z28 your selling, it becomes a very strong chassis. Every system is built for the driver so, the changes are extensive in the chassis's characteristics. They hid the car because it was probably loaded with tubing, weight reduction such as no passenger seat, rear seats and a race seat with harness. They even shaved some time off their "Official" lap... and served that up to it's fans as fact :( How sad...

I toyed with the idea of having a 4100lbs race car, or even taking one seriously. Even if you remove the CC brakes, a cage puts you on the laughing end of the scales. It's a fools car...

The GT350 is coming, a Shelby/SVT place holder has shown up in the Dealer order guides for 2015 model year.... This is good news.

I have seen the S550 in person and it looks like a good bit of mass has been taken out. To me, I'd say about 25-30% of the S197's mass has been removed. You can't really guess how much weight has been lost just by gauging mass reduction but, its a loss. It moved to a super optimal wheelbase and track combination, it literally almost shares a wheelbase/track combo with the Corvette. The next Camaro will likely be between an ATS and CTS wheelbase and left behind. I got a good look at the bare chassis in the Empire State Building pics. To me, the platform has lost significant weight. The safety structure has been made more efficient and pillar size/supports and beams have all been reduced in size. The Firewall is more compact and overall lower, it brings the cowl down quite a bit. I see a good bit of mass taken out of the platform AND, where there is less mass, there is usually less weight. The platform has got to be 200-300lbs lighter than the S197's. That platform was bulking, not Camaro bulky but it was a little fat too. The S550's platform is just far more advanced than the S197, 5th Gen and even the Alpha. Hydro-Formed panels are the way to go, Chevy may be able to use that technology... I'm not really sure.

I am awaiting more details and have done some speculation on the S550 platform on the S550 Chassis School thread. Please visit that topic here: http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php/s550-chassis-school-1594.html?p=39802#post39802

(cont.)

 

[thePill]

Good news and bad news for the 2014 z28 in SCCA...

First, the good news... It appears some movement on z28 sanctioning has started. Here is the A Stock class change proposals by a Regional office.

...and now my favorite part... the bad news...

First, I believe all "Stock" classes are now called "Street". If that is the case, the minimum tread wear rating is 140. They have actually removed all R tire equipped cars, regardless if it's factory or not.

Another boo boo... They assume the standard equipment is the same as the ZL1... Uh Oh...

CAUTION: Ensure your local body knows and understands your standard equipment. I have a bad feeling they will send you home with most of the z28's standard equipment...

I am waiting on the first z28 to try and register in T1/T2. They are on the list but again, they assume standard equipment is within regulation. They assume this because it was advertised as such... a track/race car... This may be an $80,000 mistake for a track guy if not informed.

 

[IGJoe2192]

The Z28 is just stupid. $75k for what? A Camaro with a different badge, R compound tires, CC brakes and no standard equipment.... *SMFH* Boss all day everyday

 

[Norm Peterson]

The Z28 is just stupid. $75k for what? A Camaro with a different badge, R compound tires, CC brakes and no standard equipment.... *SMFH* Boss all day everyday

Every time the matter of "no standard equipment" comes up for this car, I can only conclude that one more person simply doesn't understand it. Absence of features can very easily be a plus, if for no other reason that to offer it that way is in defiance of today's trend of ever diluting what a car really is. I don't need to have one on order or even have an opinion either way on its $75k price tag to figure that much out.


Norm

 

[FATTBoss]

Every time the matter of "no standard equipment" comes up for this car, I can only conclude that one more person simply doesn't understand it. Absence of features can very easily be a plus, if for no other reason that to offer it that way is in defiance of today's trend of ever diluting what a car really is. I don't need to have one on order or even have an opinion either way on its $75k price tag to figure that much out.


Norm

I agree Norm. If Ford had offered a street version of the Boss 302 with fewer accessories I would have bought that version. I rarely use the AC, never use the cruise control, could care less about power windows and locks. Today's buyer is spoiled, they want all the power and speed and luxury too.

I recently bought a '00 Miata. No ABS, TCS, AST, ETC, XYZ.... and I love it. Just me and the car, haven't driven the Boss in over a week!

 

[FATTBoss]

...

....

What region is this?

 

[Whiskey11]

First, I believe all "Stock" classes are now called "Street". If that is the case, the minimum tread wear rating is 140. They have actually removed all R tire equipped cars, regardless if it's factory or not.

Street class allows cars to run OEM tires regardless of treadwear. Just an FYI.

 

[thePill]

That's what I thought too Whiskey, I was proven wrong... The changes were proposed in. October 2013 and went into effect Jan '14.

1. Effective 1/1/14 – Minimum UTQG tread wear rating of 140
2. Effective 1/1/15 – Minimum UTQG tread wear rating of 200
3. Molded tread depth of 7/32” or greater as specified by the manufacturer
4. Listed in a current year of prior two years of the “Tire Guide” and/or “Tread Design Guide”
5. Department of Transportation (DOT) approved

The z28 proposal was earlier this year, it started in the West where car counts suffer in CA. I think Washington State was the first to recognize a z28 existing in SCCA.

There will still be a Stock class until everyone swaps, there will also be a Street R and Super Street.

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