GT350 vs. Z/28

[w3rkn]

The weight of A/C, etc., was your point rather than mine (in an all-out race car of course it matters, in a track day car perhaps not and especially not if you drove it there instead of trailering it).

Weight, per se, hasn't ever mattered to me when it's come time to pick options, and it wouldn't if I was to go out shopping for a Z/28 or any other car an hour from now.

I probably am biased toward the way cars used to be option-able - Spartan at the base model level, to which you added only the things you wanted and where you could generally avoid getting things you didn't. And from what I see on the Z/28 page I really don't care to have anything above the Z/28 in its basic trim other than the A/C (which I physically need these days in order to stay out of heat stress, and which I've never argued against getting) and the fairly simple sound system that comes with it. It does not matter to me that it's a separate option and that I must actively select it. I can do that.

Basically, I don't want any more complexity than I'll use, particularly if any of it can be accidentally tripped as has happened a few times in my wife's Legacy 2.5GT (some button on the steering wheel can be accidentally hit, and the damn car starts asking me to do something when the only sound I want to be hearing needs to be coming from the car's horn - just an example . . . and dammit, no, I don't want to sync anything to the car or whatever it is that hitting that button calls up).


Norm

I think you are mixing aesthetics & performance.

Do you mean "Spartan" as nice clean look? Or, no radio, no AC.. ,but they are ok, because those are basic?

Or because having none of those adds to the performance of the car..?

Confused..

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[Norm Peterson]

Aesthetics? Confusion with performance? Where did that come from? As much as possible, I stay out of discussions involving aesthetics, but you probably didn't know that.

Spartan, as I intended it, was with respect to minimal feature content beyond what you need to get in the car and drive it. Think about what getting into an original Z/28 or Boss 302 and driving off in either of those cars was like, only with today's vast improvements in performance and general durability.

I thought I'd made my position on the A/C matter clear several times over. I'm fine with A/C and a radio as options on the order blank even though I need to have the air these days and I'd really rather not be installing my own radios any more. But I still don't need somebody else making those choices for me when there are people who would not opt for them (about 25% aren't taking the A/C and stereo from what I've seen).


Norm

 

[thePill]

In my opinion, before a fully electric and independant Central Air (mounting in the rear), No AC should be standard. Here's why...

The MPG rating is based on a test of the standard model, in some cases, they may use the highest picked options combined to test. Curb weight is doing that now. Recently, as far back as 2010 as I remember, an AC portion was added to the federal MPG test, I think 1/5th of the overall rating for both City and Highway. Using a standard model will actually get you a better rating overall by eliminating the usage of AC during the test. It also eliminates some engine drag which could return a small increase in real world MPG. Maybe a 1/2 or so...

This would also help lower the MSRP and make transportation a little more affordable for that type of buyer.

Would everybody check AC? Probably, BUT, you can lower your MSRP, make some option profit, increase real world MPG, maybe a HP too, eliminate unwanted curb weight and increase federal MPG rating.

Until Electric Central Air Conditioning is invented and hopefully placed close to the rear/center axle/rear seat area, I say NO standard AC.

 

[thePill]

I'd just like to post this comparison picture so we can start to get an idea of how small the S550 is. I said it appeared to be about 30% less in the overall mass department. I have a very good feeling the S550 has lost a pretty nice chunk of curb weight so, I'm feeling a lightweight GT350. That is an '05-'09 too, in my opinion, the smallest S197 body style.

The S550 will be an outstanding competitive racing option...

 

[M.Senger]

Does s550 do squats? Damn! That back of old Mustang is soo square!

 

[thePill]

The z28 will make the GT350 comparisons look like a Hippo chasing a Cheeta.

 

[w3rkn]

Aesthetics? Confusion with performance? Where did that come from? As much as possible, I stay out of discussions involving aesthetics, but you probably didn't know that.

Spartan, as I intended it, was with respect to minimal feature content beyond what you need to get in the car and drive it. Think about what getting into an original Z/28 or Boss 302 and driving off in either of those cars was like, only with today's vast improvements in performance and general durability.

I thought I'd made my position on the A/C matter clear several times over. I'm fine with A/C and a radio as options on the order blank even though I need to have the air these days and I'd really rather not be installing my own radios any more. But I still don't need somebody else making those choices for me when there are people who would not opt for them (about 25% aren't taking the A/C and stereo from what I've seen).


Norm

That is my point.

"...with respect to minimal feature content beyond what you need to get in the car and drive it. Think about what getting into an original Z/28 or Boss 302 and driving off in either of those cars was like, only with today's vast improvements in performance and general durability."

So you don't mind if those features are there, you just like a spartan interior, with just the essentials at your finger tips.


The rest sound more like nostalgia, than anything else.

 

[Norm Peterson]

So you don't mind if those features are there, you just like a spartan interior, with just the essentials at your finger tips.

Yup. Pretty much prefer it that way.

Reference to the originals was for illustration purposes only, as I don't care to be limited to 1960's levels of cornering and overall handling . . . or braking. Been there when that was the best you could get.


Norm

 

[mustangletback]

The z28 will make the GT350 comparisons look like a Hippo chasing a Cheeta.

i agree:lol:

 

[w3rkn]

Yup. Pretty much prefer it that way.

Reference to the originals was for illustration purposes only, as I don't care to be limited to 1960's levels of cornering and overall handling . . . or braking. Been there when that was the best you could get.


Norm

:help:


So my point was correct, that you care more about the aesthetics.. of a clean looking (Spartan) interior, but... in reality, don't mind if it has those "other" features are there... just so long as they are NOT at your finger tips.


You admittingly are not opting out of those features for the sole purpose of performance, just based on old-lived nostalgia of bare bones car... raw... which is short lived, once you add a stereo, or A/C, or rear window defog, or telescopic steering, or.. etc.

Sounds to me, you like a CLEAN interior style, over a cluttered one, but that has nothing to do with the options on the car.

 

[Norm Peterson]

So my point was correct, that you care more about the aesthetics.. of a clean looking (Spartan) interior, but... in reality, don't mind if it has those "other" features are there... just so long as they are NOT at your finger tips.

You admittingly are not opting out of those features for the sole purpose of performance, just based on old-lived nostalgia of bare bones car... raw...

Nope, you're still not there. What I need to operate the car I do want to be more or less to be at my fingertips. If I don't need it, chances are very good that I actively don't want it, and don't even want it installed on my car.

It isn't a case of nostalgia at all. Trust me, even though like the Harley riders' saying goes, you won't understand.

which is short lived, once you add a stereo, or A/C, or rear window defog, or telescopic steering, or.. etc.

It's not going to matter how many times you re-word this, you're not going to get me to go along with the notion that those things need to be standard equipment.

Sounds to me, you like a CLEAN interior style, over a cluttered one, but that has nothing to do with the options on the car.

I am not appearance -driven (think I've said that already, if not then I meant to). But the happy consequence of not having extra clutter and complexity does tend to be a 'cleaner' appearance.


Norm

 

[w3rkn]

Nope, you're still not there. What I need to operate the car I do want to be more or less to be at my fingertips. If I don't need it, chances are very good that I actively don't want it, and don't even want it installed on my car.

It isn't a case of nostalgia at all. Trust me, even though like the Harley riders' saying goes, you won't understand.


It's not going to matter how many times you re-word this, you're not going to get me to go along with the notion that those things need to be standard equipment.


I am not appearance -driven (think I've said that already, if not then I meant to). But the happy consequence of not having extra clutter and complexity does tend to be a 'cleaner' appearance.


Norm

I am still confused..
You say, the lack of "options" are not for better performance, that you simply desire them for the aesthetics of a simple/basic interior..?

What about a clean designed interior, where no matter how many option u add, there is zero clutter, because those option are not visible..? (Hidden from view?)


So, you don't like options, because they typically confuse you with clutter?, so over the years you choose (lust after) basic interiors, instead of brands that have simple interiors?



I like a spartan interiors too, but I want all the options.
There are cars with great amounts of engineering that provide both. (Fully optioned & spartan interior.)

Learn they are not mutually exclusive.

 

[Norm Peterson]

I am still confused.

If I don't need it and don't want it, why should I be forced to have it? Opting out is still an option. Seems simple enough to me.

Example of where I'm coming from - I just got back from running an errand, and I do tend to temporarily re-aim one outside mirror or the other down to make it easier to back up straight into the spot (don't want to have to back out from between two large SUVs). But I absolutely do not want that done automatically for me. Don't even care to have it switch-able.


Norm

 

[w3rkn]

If I don't need it and don't want it, why should I be forced to have it? Opting out is still an option. Seems simple enough to me.

Example of where I'm coming from - I just got back from running an errand, and I do tend to temporarily re-aim one outside mirror or the other down to make it easier to back up straight into the spot (don't want to have to back out from between two large SUVs). But I absolutely do not want that done automatically for me. Don't even care to have it switch-able.


Norm

Considering I have the OPTION, to have my passenger side mirror, tilt down when I put my car in reverse.. I literally can see my back tire. It is a simple toggle I set & leave, so that every time I am in reverse, my mirror does that.. or doesn't.. depending on what I like.

I also don't even have keys, or ever have to turn on my lights. I like things simple & clean... Options don't cloud my interior, though for many.. more options clouds their minds..


More things should be standard, the lack of radio, or other normal options are pointless. The Z28 lack of everything is because it offers very little... so it pretends to be a "stripper" style of car.. it isn't.

 

[Norm Peterson]

w3 - the Z/28's lack of (nearly) everything is part of its appeal. It doesn't even pretend to be the right kind of car for everybody. You either understand this or you don't, and if you can't understand it there is no way you could appreciate it. There's plenty of evidence right here in this thread that people are missing the point.

In some respects, the Z/28 actually has too much (all those PTM modes, for example - just give me an 'everything off and locked out' and be done with it).


Norm

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