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GT350 vs. Z/28

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Jim968

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That has not stopped them before. Which includes the lightning lap.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the lightning lap done by a collection of journalists with the best time being published for each car? I don't remember them using any pros.

Remember they run the rarely used Grand West course configuration for which published lap times don't really exist beyond the lightning lap.
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thePill

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They switched to the Grand Course about 6 years ago. Previously, LL times were on a slightly longer course. A year later, changes were made and never mentioned. Still, LL times are still compared old vs. new regardless of track length. They also run in traffic (never mentioned) and rain (mentioned).

Anyway, find me another lap time from the media event at Barber... Only Pobst and Pilgram (factory shoe) were permitted. Both sources retested at another track at a later time (Florida and California).

It's more difficult to control media with everyone saying what ever they want. No drag videos, no test clips, no street clips and almost no lap vids...

I imagine the Lightning Lap will be awful...
 

Norm Peterson

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The oddity was only having two drivers report laps. Only Pro drivers Pobst and Pilgrim were allowed to report laps. Randy's single 1:36 lap was used in a majority of reports. Even indirect media used Randys time... It use to be a multi-media free for all. Autoweek had to use Pilgrim, he did good as well... Let's not forget Andy Pilgrim is a GM factory driver, Autoweek was quick to point this out.

C&D/R&T were there and ran laps, they are not permitted to show their lap times. When the Boss came out, Ford had one for every magazine and media outlet, the Laguna Seca event. The GT500 was raced for the entire Spring in pretty much every outlet. The ZL1 and 1LE had much larger events as well, everyone got to lap one...

It just seems like an underwhelming effort. I have NEVER seen a manufacture prohibit select media sources reports before.
That would be more disturbing if it becomes the model for future product introductions than it is for being the way a single model met the press.


Nor have I ever witnessed MT's lap time used for Hot Rod, Automobile, both MT web shows and a bunch of Automotive media/blog spots. Have you Norm?
I think I have seen MT being referenced in some way in magazines not on your list before.


Nor have I ever been able to pull out inconsistencies to the same degree as this event.

Let the GT350 get caught lowering tire pressure, running in optimal conditions vs. competitors, wet vs. dry and using factory drivers. They would sh!t themselves.

Christ, SID of SVTP merely placed a lap timer on a Nurburgring GT500 video and he gets discredited at every mention. Even though he discovered the cheating, they avoid Nurburgring discussion now don't they Norm, unless they are talking about the time the z28 lost in the 11 seconds of rain.
I don't know if I've seen that GT500 video, and if you've got a link to the discrediting I'd like to see what the fuss is about. Nurburgring discussion has died down, but a single topic isn't going to stay in the limelight forever. More recently, discussion seems to have settled into the usual topics for any given model - wheels, tires, I just got mine, etc., and I think most folks just aren't as concerned about the 'Ring time any more. Nothing they can do about that now anyway, and they won't be concerned with that at all, once they're driving their own Z at whatever tracks.


The Motorsport argument of mine was won, they attack me like I built the car with such limitations... They don't talk about racing anymore do they Norm...
I suppose you could claim it as a 'win', but from the amount of forum traffic in the 'Motorsports' section I don't think there are too many W2W folks involved. The new "Road Course/Track and Autocross" section (split off from the drag racing stuff, finally) has mostly attracted autocrossers and track day people. Time will tell where the SCCA will class the Z/28 for Solo (or even if they will class it anywhere), but the average track day enthusiast isn't going to care about the car's lack of class legality in a race series he isn't interested in competing in. Same thing as your average Mustang enthusiast making mods to his street driven car not giving a fig where SCCA's Solo would then reclassify it, just on a different level.

I bet you will see Z/28's show up to compete in USCA and Optima Challenge events, and maybe in SCCA's new Regional-level CAM (MAM?) classes where the rules and allowances are wide open. Even though that would mean "de-modding" the tires to something with 200 TW like BFG's Rival.


Norm
 

Jim968

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Anyway, find me another lap time from the media event at Barber... Only Pobst and Pilgram (factory shoe) were permitted.


Not permitted to publish? Here’s a link to R&T’s Barber lap time – 100.56 seconds ==>1:40.56.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-reviews/2014-chevrolet-camaro-z28-barber-motorsports-park

So, once again, what does that tell you? The tester is a journalist and not a professional racing driver. He was never going to be as fast as Randy and Andy. If you compare the journalist’s time to other journalists of similar skill, or to his own times in different cars, then it means something. Against pro drivers? Not so much.
 

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the lightning lap done by a collection of journalists with the best time being published for each car? I don't remember them using any pros.
CD has published many road course times that were slow when compared to professional drivers and yet they dont with the Z28?


Let me get the straight:
GTR 19 marketed and vid
991 GT3 25 no marketing no full vid
991 tts 26 no marketing no full vid
Z28 37 marketed and vid

And yet GM wants us to believe that the Z28 is competitive on a road course with the all three?
Z28 18 sec slower than the GTR
Z28 12 sec slower than the GT3
Z28 11 sec slower than the TTS

Whats worse is some of you people believe GM.:headbonk:
Fact is the 13/14 GT500 is more competitive with the Z28(one lap) than the
Z28 is with the so called competitors!
 

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Same day in same car? Show me.
Why does it matter? We are talking about the big difference in times. CD times compared with times from professional drivers in different days? Yes they have published these slower times before.
 
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Lol. He lied and posted misinformation every step of the way when trying to talk about the z28 in racing. He has no grasp of rules in club racing or pro racing and have made wild claims such as the z28 GS racecar being more developed and built than a tube frame GT racecar. All in his hatred of the camaro.

While I like the mustang more than the camaro. ThePill has made a ton of unsupported and incorrect statements and blew off and ignored every time he was proven wrong as well as contradicted himself with any snippit of information that would support his argument. His Camaro hatred is fine but he really does not know what he's talking about from a rule or technical standpoint.
Norm isn't an idiot bud, and as far as I can see, the z28 won't be in the SCCA due to its standard equipment. It is true, NASA has pre-approved the z28 for ST3. However, you need to take note at the other competitors that had CC brakes standard. Again, you guys are trying to shoehorn this car into a class just for the same of saying "yes it is" and have no regard for people that are considering competition. Please don't do that... The Z06 is not permitted to run CC brakes in that class, nor any other class on Earth. I highly doubt they will permit the z28 to register if other cars in the class were made to strip.

I warned people far in advanced, months before the initial first drives. If you want to mislead people, that's fine, do not do it here.

This is FACT, SCCA does not permit the use of Carbon Ceramic Brakes, 305 tires in the front or, disc brakes over 380mm. NASA also prohibits the use of CC brakes. If that is a lie, then quit reading ya' dumbass.

If it wasn't for my fair warning, most z28 fans would still be misled. Al Openbudwieser even stated that the z28 wasn't intended for any class, and as of that video, NO EFFORTS were made to sanction it anywhere. It was only until March this year that the car was sanctioned in NASA ST3. Keep in mind, the Z06 was made to remove its brakes for competition in that class.

Pro racing? It's a joke, between a fabricated Pratt z28 in IMSA to the fabricated Riley ZL1 in GTS... It's a joke...

Dig up all the classes it's eligible for.... Go ahead, I'll wait...

All in all, serious competive teams and driver know better. This is the problem with forums, most have no experience or an education about what is being discussed.

More people come to view thePill's opinion and entertainment here than z28 fans look at threads over there. That's pretty bad...

Anyway, the season has started and Rulebooks have been finalized.... Find me a class where it fits without removing its standard equipment.

You won't find one...:clap2:
 
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If, for some reason, the SCCA and NASA changes the rules, I'll let everyone know. I just don't see it happening.

Most of these Camaro5 guys are only involved in racing at the forum level. I on the other hand, have experience and actual degrees in these areas (among others). I have forgotten more in this industry than they actually know.

I'm extremely flattered by their attention and I understand the need to defend the product. I'm just not going to pawn off the Camaro's marketing tag lines on a site that people know better.
 

Stuntman

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Pro racing? It's a joke, between a fabricated Pratt z28 in IMSA to the fabricated Riley ZL1 in GTS... It's a joke...
Again, what's "fabricated" by Pratt on the Z28 that other teams in CTSCC don't do on any other car? Other than the bolt-on carbon hood, door panels and trunklid -which we've discussed many times.

Most of these Camaro5 guys are only involved in racing at the forum level. I on the other hand, have experience and actual degrees in these areas (among others). I have forgotten more in this industry than they actually know.
Care to elaborate on what your degrees are and how you use them in your motorsports efforts?
 

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thePill

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Again, what's "fabricated" by Pratt on the Z28 that other teams in CTSCC don't do on any other car? Other than the bolt-on carbon hood, door panels and trunklid -which we've discussed many times.


Care to elaborate on what your degrees are and how you use them in your motorsports efforts?
Pratt Miller have replaced all the exterior panels with Carbon Fiber. The list of modifications mirror the outgoing GS.R. That is just waaaaaaay to many changes for that class. The same stunt is pulled in GTS with the ZL1. It is pretty clear in the Rulebook, the car was delivered by Chevrolet (as a base Camaro) and built by Pratt Miller. I will post the changes the Riley car had later.

Degrees:

Collision and Refinishing (w/ Paint Chemistry/PPG)
Street Rod and Advanced Metal Shaping (w/ Custom Paint)
Motorsports Chassis Fabrication and Engineering
Trim and Upholstery (OEM and Custom)
Applied Service Management and Small Business

Within those technical degrees there are about a dozen Federal certifications. I have exactly 40 iCar points. Platinum is 10. Paint Chem has a few if it's own like SATA and Color Paint Analysis. C&R has iCar welding certifications, MIG, TIG and GAS. Also Car-O-Liner and Chief certs for Structural damage analysis and repair. As well as the Motorsport and Street Rod Chassis fab and engineering.

I was eligible for BMW's STEP program, yes, THE STEP program. To even be considered a candidate is an honor. Take a look at the requirements and tell me if an education is needed.

Once you start in this industry, it's a life time of certifications, re-certs, new schools and new technology. In order for me to progress to Industrial Design w/Automotive Core, you need to have a technical degree, at least one. This is why I giggle at the "Just because your educated doesn't mean your smart". After ID, I could be headed to Pontiac MI to Irvin to Soft Trim Development. YOU HEAR THAT FORD!!! I'll be developing CAD for your next F150!!! Already talked to Mr. Woodside, he came down here to see us. However, I am seeking a position at Ford Racing but, Roush is always looking.

I wish I would have known that I didn't need an education $70,000 ago...

We deal with young guys like you on a daily basis. They end up needing guidance, big time. That's why I suggest some schooling to help you understand the technical side at least. You would need to acquire a Core program first before you move onto a Specialty Elective. Try WyoTech, it is all Racing, Hot Rods and High Performance Drivetrain.

That's over 3000 hours of Theory, Lab and Practical Applications.

Some members here are also Facebook friends, they actually see what we are working on. It isn't kids stuff I assure you. But, I would rather keep personal stuff personal, thePill character is for my own personal amusement as well as others and the destruction of "The Old Industry". It's no fun talking about the same stuff I just got home from doing.


I'll be waiting for the z28's class information. I am eager to see what classes they were sanctioned in.
 
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thePill

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Sorry man, these guys really want to prove the z28's relevance. I personally won't tolerate misleading shills, regardless of their insults. When we see people upset, it's because we are getting to close to truth.
 

on d bit

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Sorry man, these guys really want to prove the z28's relevance. I personally won't tolerate misleading shills, regardless of their insults. When we see people upset, it's because we are getting to close to truth.
Pill, who cares what the Z28 is legal for or not? Who cares what the Boss is legal to race or not?
What we care about is building the best performance street car for the least amount of money. Legal racing certs dont mean anything to the performance of a car on the street!:frusty:

We both understand the GM is manipulating/fabricating times to make the Z28 seem faster than it is. I wonder if we will ever see a "real" test(one that is not overlooked and controlled be GM, or any manufacturer) on the track performance of the Z28?

In my mind the Z28 is a fail. GM is marketing the wrong car in the wrong manner. They should be marketing the 1LE.:gossip:
 
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thePill

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If they want the glory, they need to do the work. They need a championship and wins not the z28 as it stands. Nurburgring, Pro racing, Am Racing and magazine test... It was a marketing angle and had nothing to do with the spirit of the original. They got that term from J. Mays when discussing the S550. They are using the "Evolution not Revolution theme now.

Some of their hardcore "faithful" are pissed, I know I would be. While those unconvinced "faithful" now come under attack, the real tag liners are still selling it.

Looking at the view counts on those threads, Big D, I think your right...

Nobody does care...


...but I still have a core audience to Intertain (Internet Entertainment, thePill tm), and if a laugh has to come at the expense of those who would mislead you, I say let 'em burn.

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