GT350 vs. Z/28

[Trackaholic]

GM had the C7 Z51 at the ring at the same time as the Z/28. No time was ever released for the Z51. Some believe that is because it was either too fast (stealing thunder from the Z/28) or too slow (not able to compare as well with the various C6 versions as desired), or that they never got the clean lap they really wanted (although they did release a Z/28 time with non-optimal track conditions).

IMO, the Z51 is a much better platform than the Z/28 for a track car, but the Z/28 has a couple improved components (mostly the brakes and engine, and possibly the shocks, although the Mag Ride shocks on the vette are very well reviewed).

Overall, if I was going to spend the money required to buy a Z/28, I'd instead get a C7, a new set of wheels with R-compound tires, and a nice BBK for the front (and maybe all four) wheels. If it wasn't for the greatness of the C7 Vette, the Z/28 might look better in my eyes.

I would be very interested to see how the driving experience varies between the Z28 and Z51 C7 Vette. Perhaps the Z/28's improvements are notable enough to tip the scales in its favor.

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[garagelogic]

Here's what I took from the z28 article I read earlier today. Ohhhhh...ahhhh....it only took GM 14 years to answer the 2000 Cobra R.

 

[Pablo GT350]

Z/28 just proves that you can turn a big heavy car into a pretty stout track car. If thats what you want it can be done. Just takes money.

New Autoweek just arrived. Z/28 vs GT3 at Barber Motorsport Park with pro race driver Andy Pilgrim at the wheel. Spoiler alert: GT3 was faster by .53

But it sounds like he actually preferred the Camaro. YMMV

 

[Zshazz]

[ame="[MEDIA=youtube]PqkyWhVBSKU[/MEDIA]"]GTR vs Z/28 Head 2 Head (Motor Trend)[/ame]


Spoiler Alert:


The Z/28 wins. Wait, what?

 

[cpumatt]

"I’d have seen better if I plunged my head into a pool of hydrochloric acid and went mining. But the Z/28 is a track car. So you overlook that." That seems like something a little too drastic to just 'overlook'. Wouldn't that effect you driving ability in the race?

"It should be faster. It should be more refined. The Z/28, despite weighing 300 lbs. less than the Camaro ZL1, is a portly 3,820 lbs. Camaros are notoriously heavy. And even in this, its lightest form, mass poses a problem." Yes, it does pose a problem, but eliminating mass requires more money. I think the z/28 should stay toward the cheaper end, or I'm sure the GT350 will over take it by sales a long shot.

Besides all of that, why is this thread even here? The GT350 hasn't even been released. How can you compare the z/28 to a car that we don't even have complete information on?

 

[FATTBoss]

Besides all of that, why is this thread even here? The GT350 hasn't even been released. How can you compare the z/28 to a car that we don't even have complete information on?

Good point. No one knows what the GT350 might be, or how much it might cost. Given that the Boss 302 was $40-$50k, and GT500s cost up to $70k or more, the new car could be in the same price category as the Z/28.

Besides that, by the time the car does come out, comparing it to a car no longer produced would be pointless, much like many say about the Z/28 being compared to the out of production Boss.

My guess is Ford won't even mention the Z/28 when they finally do bring the car out. They have already stated their targets for performance are M3 and 911. I think this pisses GM off to no end when Ford won't even acknowledge a Chevrolet as a competitor.

 

[Nate408]

I'm shocked how well the Z/28 did against the GTR. That's genuinely impressive. However I will hold judgement until I see more track tests where the Z/28 wins. Also, holy crap that GTR is fast in the quarter-mile, it destroyed the Z/28 (lol).

 

[Gman11Gt]

Motor trend got it beating the Porsche 911 Turbo S 14 as well.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests...8_porsche_911_turbo_s_nissan_gt_r_comparison/

 

[thePill]

If the Z/28 isn't legal to race in SCCA then why is it listed as a T1-LP car on page 808 of the 2014 SCCA GCR?

http://scca.cdn.racersites.com/prod/assets/2014 GCR March1.pdf

Jim, please stop trying to place this turd somewhere. T1 Camaro's have a composite body, they are the same cars used in GTS. Built by Riley or perhaps Pratt this year.

That's funny...

Edit: Besides, the LS7 has been approved with a HUGE restriction. NOT THE z28 nameplate. The LS7 has been approved for T1 since 2006. It was never required to homologated the z28 in SCCA and, according to that, just the badge will make it (see the ZL1 in GTS).

It's a trick... well, more of a lie... They just want the badge on the car. This is to fool people like yourself. You can instantly tell a composite bodied Camaro by the exposed B-pillar. There is nothing Camaro offers that is competitive in that class.

Keep lookin' bud, I really want to see an OEM z28 in Motorsports too... It's just not gonna happen with the equipment the Camaro requires to be competitive.

Edit 2: I do anticipate a World Challenge z28. It may be limited to 5.5 liters though. When the CTS-V ran in WC, it used a 5.5 LS7 too. Full composite bodies...

What your looking for, a fake Camaro.

Is this a REAL ZL1 Jim? Because Chevy tried to pass it off as one.

This is what to expect from Chevy, just a badge to save some face in racing. I expect the z28 to fill in here and eliminate some embarrassment.

Here's #97... Same class, about as far from OEM the Boss gets.

Here is #98, training it's replacement... a GT...

This isn't going to be pretty, Camaro desperately needs an OEM car.

 

[thePill]

The z28's lap time at Barber is great!!! Kinda wish there were more than a single 1:36.17 run done in different cars. Seems strange only one z28 and one lap... Hopefully it can manage that gap again in future test. Don't want to cry fowl but, it just seems like pre-production Camaro's are really fast, then 6 months later, it loses it's steam somehow.

NICE! The track map is out, first thing I noticed was they chose to use the Short configuration at Barber. Now that I know this, I can't compare it to the IMSA CTSC times. I still don't know why Chevy chooses to do this... There is even LESS info on the short setup for club racing.

Other than using the 2.27 mile version instead of the 2.38, something I noticed. The CTSC cars are running 1:36 on the 2.38 version. I thought the Z was well placed with its competition... Not so... What really bothers me is the GT-R and GT3 times. BOTH of those cars are faster than the Boss 302R in CTSC and they are STOCK GT-R's and GT3's. They were about a 1/2 second faster than the 302R at Laguna Seca, maybe more. That's a 1:34-1:36 at that track....

Now, for some reason, the GT3 and GTR have become slower this year. The Boss 302R ran a 1:36.5 at Barber last season if I remember correctly. That was on the full track version of Barber. I know conditions weren't ideal but, with the shorter track, the Porsche and Nissan should have been faster.

I instantly noticed the 1:36 being kinda slow for a 500hp car... The GT3 and GTR run faster times on the Am circuit on a full track. They are literally running almost 2 full classes slower in this comparison. The Z06 runs a 1:35 here as well according to some Alabama natives... That is the 2.27 Club version the z28 just ran on... The GT3 and GT-R should be right there with a Z06... Now... Not so much... More weight or less power in these cars now?

What gives??? A stock GT-R can hand the Z06/Z07 it's ass at EVERY track in the world. On this day however, the GT-R ran nearly 2 seconds slower than the Z06's average 1:35. Does that mean the z28 will be as fast as the Z06? Not likely... Once we see how a z28 fares against a Z06, we will know if this test was bullsh!t or not. Just seems slow to me, a 1:36 on the full 2.38 mile course is off the pace for the GT-R and GT3... I'll have to ask more owners in the Birmingham area...

 

[SuperC]

This isn't the GM I knew for the past 30 years.

Between the Corvette, Cadillac CTS-V and now the Camaro, things have really changed.

All this competition just means a better Mustang and more (affordable)fun for us!

 

[Jim968]

Jim, please stop trying to place this turd somewhere. T1 Camaro's have a composite body, they are the same cars used in GTS. Built by Riley or perhaps Pratt this year.

That's funny...

Edit: Besides, the LS7 has been approved with a HUGE restriction. NOT THE z28 nameplate. The LS7 has been approved for T1 since 2006. It was never required to homologated the z28 in SCCA and, according to that, just the badge will make it (see the ZL1 in GTS).

It's a trick... well, more of a lie... They just want the badge on the car. This is to fool people like yourself. You can instantly tell a composite bodied Camaro by the exposed B-pillar. There is nothing Camaro offers that is competitive in that class.

Keep lookin' bud, I really want to see an OEM z28 in Motorsports too... It's just not gonna happen with the equipment the Camaro requires to be competitive.

Edit 2: I do anticipate a World Challenge z28. It may be limited to 5.5 liters though. When the CTS-V ran in WC, it used a 5.5 LS7 too. Full composite bodies...

Not surprised you're still unable to read and understand a motorsports rule book. It very clearly says the the 2014 Z/28 is allowed to run in T1-LP which is essentially the T1 class subject to the T2 prep rules per rule 9.1.9.1. It even lists OEM specs for 2014 Z/28 including engine specs, wheelbase, wheel sizes, gear ratios, and brake sizes.

I really hope people in this forum understand that your racing claims can't be taken seriously.

 

[likeaboss]

"Why a $116,000 GT-R? Surely a Ford Mustang Boss 302 Laguna Seca is more comparable? Chevrolet has tested the two at its Milford Proving Grounds and claims (and has evidence to back it up) that the Z/28 is more than five seconds faster. Having driven both, I don’t doubt that. And the Shelby GT500? Well, that’s slower than the Boss."

Not sure about that article. A 13-14 GT500 should be faster than a 12-13 Boss 302 LS. I sure as hell know my 14 GT500 is faster than my standard Boss 302. There isn't that much difference between a standard Boss 302 and the LS.

 

[Jim968]

The z28's lap time at Barber is great!!! Kinda wish there were more than a single 1:36.17 run done in different cars. Seems strange only one z28 and one lap... Hopefully it can manage that gap again in future test. Don't want to cry fowl but, it just seems like pre-production Camaro's are really fast, then 6 months later, it loses it's steam somehow.

You must have missed it. Pobst did a 1:36.17 for Motor Trend, and Andy Pilgrim did a 1:36.29 for Autoweek. From the pictures it looks like Motor Trend did their laps in a silver car and Autoweek had a red car.

NICE! The track map is out, first thing I noticed was they chose to use the Short configuration at Barber. Now that I know this, I can't compare it to the IMSA CTSC times. I still don't know why Chevy chooses to do this... There is even LESS info on the short setup for club racing.


Other than using the 2.27 mile version instead of the 2.38, something I noticed. The CTSC cars are running 1:36 on the 2.38 version. I thought the Z was well placed with its competition... Not so... What really bothers me is the GT-R and GT3 times. BOTH of those cars are faster than the Boss 302R in CTSC and they are STOCK GT-R's and GT3's. They were about a 1/2 second faster than the 302R at Laguna Seca, maybe more. That's a 1:34-1:36 at that track....

Now, for some reason, the GT3 and GTR have become slower this year. The Boss 302R ran a 1:36.5 at Barber last season if I remember correctly. That was on the full track version of Barber. I know conditions weren't ideal but, with the shorter track, the Porsche and Nissan should have been faster.

I instantly noticed the 1:36 being kinda slow for a 500hp car... The GT3 and GTR run faster times on the Am circuit on a full track. They are literally running almost 2 full classes slower in this comparison. The Z06 runs a 1:35 here as well according to some Alabama natives... That is the 2.27 Club version the z28 just ran on... The GT3 and GT-R should be right there with a Z06... Now... Not so much... More weight or less power in these cars now?

What gives??? A stock GT-R can hand the Z06/Z07 it's ass at EVERY track in the world. On this day however, the GT-R ran nearly 2 seconds slower than the Z06's average 1:35. Does that mean the z28 will be as fast as the Z06? Not likely... Once we see how a z28 fares against a Z06, we will know if this test was bullsh!t or not. Just seems slow to me, a 1:36 on the full 2.38 mile course is off the pace for the GT-R and GT3... I'll have to ask more owners in the Birmingham area...

Sorry you wasted so much time on this analysis, but the 2.27 is a typo. There is no "Club" course at Barber Motorsports Park. The track length is 2.38. Carolina Motorsports Park is 2.27 miles, and I suspect the MT map guy goofed and picked that up instead.

 

[thePill]

Dear Jim,

Where are the brakes and 305 tires. You will likely need to swap out to Z06 wheels and tires as the rules state.

Do you have any idea what will need to be done to the calibration when you change brakes? The z28 has a specific calibration and requires MAJOR reworking if not a new ABS system altogether. This was discussed by Pete at Pedders on Camaro5.

That is a HUGE unnecessary burden for a competitive hopeful. I see the Stingray right below it... That's where I would be...

Thanks for the update on the new class entry. Do you know how a 2014 z28 will perform without its brakes and tires Jim???

Hahahahahhahahah!!!

Hopefully, it is granted a waiver... but looking at everyone else, they will make it down size like everyone else. 355mm was the max size, 380mm is waiverable.

As you can see, Carbon Ceramic Brakes are still not allowed in SCCA. The info has been copy and pasted in, none of the changes have been noted. I can see the 1LE's brakes possibly being used. If no z28's show up, it will remain limitless.

Edit: WOW! a 3550lbs curb weight too. That's the z28 the OEM car should have been based on. Besides, you asked which Mustang class the z28 wouldn't be in. I've never seen a Mustang in that class. We will see what it can do with 355mm steel rotors, or if they can even just be swappe out. There's no Mustang in that class so you might be safe...

...for now...

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