GT350 vs Hellcat: different class or competitors?

[krt22]

What standard should be used to evaluate track performance, KRT? Pure opinion? Similarly, what standard should be used for 1/4 mile times, and what do they tell us? Also, is there a difference between a track like the Ring and LS? Finally, what of a car that registers 1+G on the skid pad? Does that say anything about that car's track ability? If not, do any numbers matter other than HP and torque?
My point has been, and remains, that the Hellcat is not simply a straight line racer. It is a spirited all around performance car straight off the assembly line. It performs well on the track and strip...and can hold it's own (if not totally outrun) any other American production car on the Autobahn.

Carry on with your bench racing, im done here

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[Caballus]

Assumed accurate until you start getting drastically different readings. Again, .92/.94 from car mags to the 1.02g from your friend. Something's not right there.



And fairness started at reply #2, who corrected reply #1. The most thanked comment was a pro-Hellcat post. I'm not going to defend every post here but I don't think it was too bad, especially considering this is a mustang forum.



Just a funny way of saying that the only people's opinion I care about are my wife, my kids, and my boss (for obvious reasons assuming you have a boss, wife, kids, or any combination of them).

- Just dug for the g-force meter pictures. Have them on a different computer, so will have to post them next week. Confident they were accurate. In fact, we were just talking yesterday about the fact that he finally zero'ed them back out. Everyone, to include the professional driving the car for him at the time, was surprised at what the car could do and commented that it was too bad that they were not making a commercial for Dodge at the time. Then again, per an earlier post, all are surprised at what Sabine and other pros can do with a van! Related, if you look at the first picture and note the miles on the car, he was driving home from work and realized he would hit the 500 mile mark (break in), so decided to continue down the autobahn and then turn around and open up on the way home. Amazing what cars can do when you remove restrictions...

- No issue with the replies. They were all interesting some funny, some weird(?). Some were well-founded debates, while others were gut feelings or perhaps just arguing for the sake of arguing. Wouldn't be in the business I'm in if I didn't believe in First Amendment, so to each his own...besides, it's the internet lol

 

[Caballus]

Carry on with your bench racing, im done here

Thanks, KRT. Learned a lot, though I have no idea what bench racing is.

 

[Trackaholic]

Thanks, KRT. Learned a lot, though I have no idea what bench racing is.

It's this:

Red's clearly the fastest. Looks like I bought the wrong color.

-T

 

[Taneras]

It's this:

Red's clearly the fastest. Looks like I bought the wrong color.

-T

As an owner of a triple yellow GT, I see a blue bench and red bench about to get lapped

 

[Hack]

Once we start talking about the track, the HP becomes less of an issue and the handling, to include the ability to hold turns (G force) takes over. So to speak of other 700hp cars is to compare oranges and tennis balls.

In this case, we are talking about the Nürburgring, which for handling is viewed as the gold standard. I don't think there is a time for GT on the Ring (official or unofficial), although I would certainly not argue with whatever times you may have access to. The GT350 and 500 have times, which are faster than the HC, but not incredibly so.

This brings me back to my point. The comments regarding the HC seem to often be more based on emotion than hard fact. 7:51 and 1+G...

Also, with the ability to take 1+g, what would make one think that it would be slow on the corners? How many g's on the skid pad are required to take the corners fast?

The Hellcat is similar to the Mustang GT in speed around a track - depends on how long the straights are. Here's a test at Gingerman where the Mustang GT lapped in 144.8, beating the Hellcat by a second despite having ~270 fewer HP.

http://www.automobilemag.com/featur...ustang-gt-challenger-hellcat-american-hustle/

This means the Mustang was much faster through the corners, because we both know that the Hellcat is going to be faster on the straights!!

The skidpad doesn't tell the entire story because that test is basically static in that there aren't transients that upset the car - braking, accelerating, turning left, turning right, etc. In stock form, you have to treat the Hellcat gas pedal like there's an egg on it, because if you aren't SUPER careful with that pedal you will break the rear tires loose.

You are saying that HP doesn't matter on the track and it's unfair to compare, for instance, a 500 HP Porsche GT3 RS to the 707 HP Hellcat. The problem is that the Hellcat is overpowered - it needs more aerodynamic aids and above all, more tire in order to be a solid track performer.

It's obvious that more power will help a car on the straights, especially if the straights are long. The 'Ring has some super long high speed straights! Nurburgring times are also famous for being fudged with the manufacturers improving their times with aftermarket add ons. Just adding stickier tires or running on a good weather day vs. a poor day can make a huge difference.

Another thing. At the Nurburgring, fast cars are closer to 7:30 or so. 20 seconds is an awfully long time.

Frankly, stock vs. stock the Hellcat will even be challenged to beat a Mustang GT 0-60 on the streets. Push on the throttle just a hair too much and the Hellcat will lose.

 

[krt22]

It's this:

Red's clearly the fastest. Looks like I bought the wrong color.

-T

In the latest issue of Home Builder, not only did Red dry in 17 less seconds (out of 3.5 hours), but it also increased the benches load rating by 1.2 pounds

Hard to argue with those numbers!

 

[Hack]

In the latest issue of Home Builder, not only did Red dry in 17 less seconds (out of 3.5 hours), but it also increased the benches load rating by 1.2 pounds

Hard to argue with those numbers!

I hope those benches have a rear tire with more than 275 section width. ;)

 

[pietran30]

Assumed accurate until you start getting drastically different readings. Again, .92/.94 from car mags to the 1.02g from your friend. Something's not right there.



And fairness started at reply #2, who corrected reply #1. The most thanked comment was a pro-Hellcat post. Half of the first 10 replies were pro-Hellcat and had well over a dozen thanks shared between them. I'm not going to defend every post here but I don't think it was too bad, especially considering this is a mustang forum.



Just a funny way of saying that the only people's opinion I care about are my wife, my kids, and my boss (for obvious reasons assuming you have a boss, wife, kids, or any combination of them).

You keep saying something is not right if his friend's hellcat pulled 1+ g's since magazines are only getting .92/.94. Would these be the same magazines that post 1/4 mile times for the GT's at 13.0 seconds!? If so, I guess something must be up with the people on here who run 12.5-12.7 bone stock.

 

[1mic]

Lol at hellcat being an all around performance car. Stupidest thing I've read today.

A perfect example of an all around performance car is the c6z. Depending on the driver can run mid to low 11's in 1/4 mile and run lap times only clueless Hellcat fanboys dream of.

 

[bluebeastsrt]

How is this 1g being measured? If it's the same silly track apps crap that is on the Mustang. I wouldn't bet the farm on it being correct.

 

[Taneras]

You keep saying something is not right if his friend's hellcat pulled 1+ g's since magazines are only getting .92/.94.

No, all I said was that there was a large dependency between what his friend is reporting and what the magazines are reporting.

Would these be the same magazines that post 1/4 mile times for the GT's at 13.0 seconds!? If so, I guess something must be up with the people on here who run 12.5-12.7 bone stock.

Huge difference, there are many more variables that affect 1/4 mile times and trap speeds. Skidpad tests are pretty straight forward and don't have many variables that'd throw results off.

Also I'd that we're talking about much larger differences - .1g on a skidpad vs 3-4 tenths in the 1/4.

 

[pietran30]

No, all I said was that there was a large dependency between what his friend is reporting and what the magazines are reporting.



Huge difference, there are many more variables that affect 1/4 mile times and trap speeds. Skidpad tests are pretty straight forward and don't have many variables that'd throw results off.

Also I'd that we're talking about much larger differences - .1g on a skidpad vs 3-4 tenths in the 1/4.

My point was that looking at magazines for performance numbers is kind of silly. They never resemble people's real-world data.

 

[Taneras]

They never resemble people's real-world data.

Interesting, what non-real world do these magazine tests take place in? :lol:

 

[Blk2015GT]

Interesting, what non-real world do these magazine tests take place in? :lol:

Because most people aren't professional level drivers and can't come near what the magazine does

Or some are so fr out there high or low that you wonder who paid them off to skew the results. I never ever consider magazine times. I would rather look to forum members with real world unbiased timeslips

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