GT350 vs Hellcat: different class or competitors?

[Pnasty]

I've never even viewed the hellcat as a real performer for a track, thats just not what its meant for. its a pretty badass overpowered street car with a nice interior (that I don't like but hey, they tried). IMO its just a good looking street car made for people to swing their dick around yelling 707 horsetorques.

Edit: not saying its not a capable car, but it damn sure wouldn't be your first choice for a road racing car...

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[Caballus]

I've never even viewed the hellcat as a real performer for a track, thats just not what its meant for. its a pretty badass overpowered street car with a nice interior (that I don't like but hey, they tried). IMO its just a good looking street car made for people to swing their dick around yelling 707 horsetorques.

Edit: not saying its not a capable car, but it damn sure wouldn't be your first choice for a road racing car...

PNASTY, good point, but how do you explain the stats? 7:51 and 1g+ performance on one of the most respected tracks in the world.

 

[pietran30]

I've never even viewed the hellcat as a real performer for a track, thats just not what its meant for. its a pretty badass overpowered street car with a nice interior (that I don't like but hey, they tried). IMO its just a good looking street car made for people to swing their dick around yelling 707 horsetorques.

Edit: not saying its not a capable car, but it damn sure wouldn't be your first choice for a road racing car...

There's actually a guy who goes to our local cars and coffee who has been all over the country with his hellcat that he drives on the track consistently. He didn't upgrade anything but the tires and the brakes for the first year. Not sure if he's done anything else is the past 5 months.

 

[Hack]

True, so is the intent for the GT350 to be a place holder until the GT comes out or is it a lesser track alternative that also makes a good DD?

Likewise with the HC? Lesser, but more well-rounded option for those who like the Viper?

So far, the thread seems to repeatedly ignore the performance stats on the HC-

-7:51 on Nordschleife and 1+g consistently on the skid pad, along with being able to maintain close to 200mph on the Autobahn. Yet the conversation continues to return to "yeah, but it's not a good track car. It's only good in a straight line. It weighs too much..."

-7:51 on the Nürburgring and 1+g on the skidpad...depending on who is behind the wheel (and which unofficial 350 stats one buys), that's in the ballpark with the GT350, GT500, and Z/28...just talking stats, not emotion... 7:51 and 1+g...

Those numbers seem slow to me for a 700+ HP car. The car was probably fast on the long straights and slow on the corners, just like we all know it will be. What times do other 700+ hp cars make on that track?

I know the GT PP is faster than the HC on some tracks. It just depends - if you have long enough straights the HC will look ok just because it has a lot of power.

 

[Pnasty]

PNASTY, good point, but how do you explain the stats? 7:51 and 1g+ performance on one of the most respected tracks in the world.

im not trying to take away from what its capable of, id just pick a different car for a road track if that was my main purpose. its like saying an m3 can't run down a drag strip, it can, and its pretty damn fast, but it wouldn't be my first choice for a drag car.

 

[Caballus]

Those numbers seem slow to me for a 700+ HP car. The car was probably fast on the long straights and slow on the corners, just like we all know it will be. What times do other 700+ hp cars make on that track?

I know the GT PP is faster than the HC on some tracks. It just depends - if you have long enough straights the HC will look ok just because it has a lot of power.

Once we start talking about the track, the HP becomes less of an issue and the handling, to include the ability to hold turns (G force) takes over. So to speak of other 700hp cars is to compare oranges and tennis balls.

In this case, we are talking about the Nürburgring, which for handling is viewed as the gold standard. I don't think there is a time for GT on the Ring (official or unofficial), although I would certainly not argue with whatever times you may have access to. The GT350 and 500 have times, which are faster than the HC, but not incredibly so.

This brings me back to my point. The comments regarding the HC seem to often be more based on emotion than hard fact. 7:51 and 1+G...

Also, with the ability to take 1+g, what would make one think that it would be slow on the corners? How many g's on the skid pad are required to take the corners fast?

 

[Caballus]

im not trying to take away from what its capable of, id just pick a different car for a road track if that was my main purpose. its like saying an m3 can't run down a drag strip, it can, and its pretty damn fast, but it wouldn't be my first choice for a drag car.

What performance stats would you be seeking if not those provided by the HC?

 

[krt22]

What performance stats would you be seeking if not those provided by the HC?

At 4500lbs, it will never be considered a track car period. One glory lap around the ring and a decent skid pad number are not indicative of true on track performance. And at 4500lbs, it is going to eat through brakes/tires like crazy You'd be lucky to get a few sessions out of them before you heat soak the engine and cook the brakes. No one buys them to be track cars, they are crazy street bruisers and there isnt anything wrong with that.

 

[krt22]

What performance stats would you be seeking if not those provided by the HC?

At 4500lbs, it will never be considered a track car period. One glory lap around the ring and a decent skid pad time are not indicative of true on track performance. And at 4500lbs, it is going to eat through brakes/tires like crazy You'd be lucky to get a few sessions out of them before you heat soak the engine and cook the brakes. No one buys them to be track cars, they are crazy street bruisers and there isnt anything wrong with that.


And you basically lose all credibility in a track oriented conversation when the first thing you spit out is ring times.

 

[nastang87xx]

Chrysler said themselves it was never meant to be a full on track car either though. There's nothing to prove.

 

[Caballus]

At 4500lbs, it will never be considered a track car period. One glory lap around the ring and a decent skid pad time are not indicative of true on track performance. And at 4500lbs, it is going to eat through brakes/tires like crazy You'd be lucky to get a few sessions out of them before you heat soak the engine and cook the brakes. No one buys them to be track cars, they are crazy street bruisers and there isnt anything wrong with that.


And you basically lose all credibility in a track oriented conversation when the first thing you spit out is ring times.

Sorry to spit--normally try not to do that in public--in the field is different. The recorded experiences I refer to are used because they cannot be contested and come from the track that sets the standard for all auto testing--just like the first picture on this thread is incontestable. Conversely, I believe credibility is lost when arguments are based on emotions and facts are dismissed.

Also, while quoting a singular (i.e., fastest recorded) track time, the same is true of quoted 1/4 mile times or any other stats that reflect top performance. Moreover, aside from the recorded track time, as I pointed out in the beginning, I was part of the experiences I am referring to, as they are from a buddy's car here--a combat experienced helicopter pilot who comments: this thing is faster and better handling than my Blackhawk! Finally, I am talking about repeated laps, not a single one. The pro who was riding along/coaching commented on the brakes, saying he had never run across a stock vehicle with such braking ability, particularly the ability to hold a line when hard braking--just fact. The comparison to the NBR track experience would be to a 2-3 mile "track" back home, which brings no credible comparability.

So, when all is said and done, a strong argument can be made that the HC is not only in the same class as the GT350, but that it is a better all around performer. 1. On an open road, the GT350 cannot keep up (192mph Autobahn example on first post); 2. On the drag strip, there is no contest; 3. On the track, the GT350 can turn a slightly better time, but nothing phenomenal if we are truly comparing a track car to a drag strip auto.

And I'm a GT350 owner...once again, please pardon the spit...

 

[Caballus]

Chrysler said themselves it was never meant to be a full on track car either though. There's nothing to prove.

Agree completely with your point. There's nothing to prove. I think the point is that it's a solid, well-rounded car. Whether a 'full on' track car or not, it's more than a straight line racer.

 

[Taneras]

PNASTY, good point, but how do you explain the stats? 7:51 and 1g+ performance on one of the most respected tracks in the world.

I googled and couldn't find anything official. Went to Wiki on Nurburgring lap times and there was a Hellcat 7:51 time, but its source was an instagram link that is either broken or was removed.

How sure are you that the Hellcat ran a 7:51?

Seems a bit fishy to me, wiki mentions the hellcat supposedly had a passenger (~200lbs) in it as well. So it'd easily run a sub 7:50, maybe a mid or low 7:40? Looking at the company the Hellcat would be among in that range makes me highly skeptical.

 

[Caballus]

I googled and couldn't find anything official. Went to Wiki on Nurburgring lap times and there was a Hellcat 7:51 time, but its source was an instagram link that is either broken or was removed.

How sure are you that the Hellcat ran a 7:51?

Seems a bit fishy to me, wiki mentions the hellcat supposedly had a passenger (~200lbs) in it as well. So it'd easily run a sub 7:50, maybe a mid or low 7:40? Looking at the company the Hellcat would be among in that range makes me highly skeptical.

Hate when I'm talking smack and the evidence disappears! Actually saw the missing reference myself, which is part of what made me ask the question that started this thread. I'll dig...in the meantime, below is a 8:09 run on the ring...you'll get a laugh out of it, I'm sure...no--it's not real...

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[krt22]

Sorry to spit--normally try not to do that in public--in the field is different. The recorded experiences I refer to are used because they cannot be contested and come from the track that sets the standard for all auto testing

Entirely untrue. It sets the standards for keyboard racing and is a decent bench mark, but nothing more. There is no sanctioned racing body that subjects the cars to tech inspection and thus the times are subject to scrutiny. There are plenty of ring "ringers" sent by OEMs for bragging rights, so unless the times are done via 3rd party testing with the same skilled driver and on the same day, its not a real comparison.

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