GT350 or BMW M4

[Minn19]

I came from a DCT M4 and have some posts comparing the two here and in a thread on F80 post.

These are the basics from my point of view. The M4 was gorgeous inside and out and faster than the GT350 in a straight line. But, it wasn't only sound that is missing. I had a full Remus exhaust and it still don't compare to the GT350.

I hate saying a car does or doesn't have a soul. I'll stick to fun or not fun intangibles. On paper the M4 should be a lot more fun, but for some reason it isn't. It lacks that intangible for some reason. The GT350 lacks the build quality inside and out that BMW has and overall ergonomics, but kicks the M4s ass when it comes to having fun driving the car.

The GT350 also has a lot going for it in standard performance equipment as well. The brakes on the GT350 are better and the Magneride is much better than the regular M adaptive suspension. TC modes are light years better than the MDM mode on the M3/4 as well. The F80 M3/4 can be beaten on the track all day though and can take it. They are tough well built, very well engineered cars. You can't take that away from them and I know this from experience.

If you want a great all around car that can be tracked, but you care more about overall options and luxury get the M3/4. If you care more about fun and a much more involving overall driving experience get the GT350 IMO.

I switched two months ago and haven't missed my M4 or previous F80 M3 one bit. The GT350 makes me want to really drive a car again. Even with its shortcomings, I make up reasons to take it on errands and just truly love driving again.

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[elitex]

I've owned an E92 M3 Coupe Comp. It was definitely special but it wasn't perfect. Engine was pretty gutless in the low RPMS. Voodoo has a lot more torque, with cars weighing very similar. Remember that Mustang GT is as fast as an M3. Shelby is on another level.

Video of last gen GT and E92 M3.

[ame]

 

[TDC]

Not only does a GT350 sound better but it performs as well or better than new M4's and M3's. My first year in autocross stock for stock I have yet to be beaten by an M4 or M3

 

[GT350/BT55]

You have to read this and sadly I agree. After owning three expensive German cars including an m3, they are finicky and overdone. Fit and finish impeccable, but overly complex and (god I have to say it) boring. The heel clickers have just over engineered them into electronic and mechanical time bombs.

http://thegarage.jalopnik.com/bmw-engines-are-gigantic-pieces-of-shit-1784684330

I have to hold judgement on the Gt350 as to what the future holds. Right now it is new, different, and yes the stereo is lame, but I don't care. Getting the tail out a little - that is a sports car. I want it to be a little frightening.

 

[Minn19]

You have to read this and sadly I agree. After owning three expensive German cars including an m3, they are finicky and overdone. Fit and finish impeccable, but overly complex and (god I have to say it) boring. The heel clickers have just over engineered them into electronic and mechanical time bombs.

http://thegarage.jalopnik.com/bmw-engines-are-gigantic-pieces-of-shit-1784684330

I have to hold judgement on the Gt350 as to what the future holds. Right now it is new, different, and yes the stereo is lame, but I don't care. Getting the tail out a little - that is a sports car. I want it to be a little frightening.

Shut off TC/DSC on the M3/4 and it was one of the scariest cars I've ever driven. That wasn't one of its problems IMO.

The next scariest for me is an F10 M5 with all nannies off. :eyebulge:

 

[elitex]

Shut off TC/DSC on the M3/4 and it was one of the scariest cars I've ever driven. That wasn't one of its problems IMO.

The next scariest for me is an M5 with all nannies off. :eyebulge:

I've owned 2 F10 M5's. They are definitely a handful with all the nannies off. :eyebulge:

 

[GT350/BT55]

My BMW E46 M3 was def a fun car and the fit and finish we're great.
What wasn't great was doing a 600 mile road trip and having all the lights go off, cabin and exterior, WHILE I was driving on the NYS thruway t night. That issue just mysteriously fixed itself.

What wasn't great was the starter interlock going south. When it did I called BMW only to be told that an entire starter unit would have to be installed as the interlock was not sold by itself. No problem, under warranty, but, they did not have a replacement starter in the USA. :headbonk:

So, the replacement was ordered from Germany. My car got flatted to a dealer 75 miles away. And I waited. About a week letter they had it done. I drive for hours to get it after work. It's dark, I look over the car as best as I could, I leave. The next morning in the light I notice a dent in my roof. Oh well, at least it starts.

So after similar electro-mechanical nightmares with Audis, BMW, VW, I am kind of put off with the whole German car thing. They are awesome, but they are also starting to get like HAL in the movie 2001. Every German car I have owned left me stranded, multiple times, all with low miles. so now for the time being I am USA all the way. I hope my faith is rewarded.

 

[lemers]

I would never again own a BMW out of warranty. So, if you go for the BMW, then sell it before the warranty expires.

Every time I start up my 3-series, something seems to go wrong, and its an expensive fix. And I live in Germany, and parts are still expensive.

Oh, and even German mechanics still cant figure out why the heater doesn't stay hot. It only pushes warm air if I'm driving at highway speeds.

 

[Caballus]

Have owned several BMWs (American and German spec). All serviced by German dealers and specialists only. No major maintenance issues with any. Haven't owned an M3/M4, but constantly run with them and have driven and done side-by-side comparisons with the GT350.

M4 is definitely a more precise and dependable build, as are BMWs in general--inside and out. Performance wise, perhaps a professional driver can separate them, but the average experienced enthusiast cannot. In some areas the M3/4 will show more agility or power, in others the GT350 pulls away. This is true whether on the highway (Autobahn), backroads, or track (assuming the GT350 is not one of the limp mode models). In that sense, they are in the same class.

So, it boils down to personal preference and price. Not sure what the M3/M4 costs in the States. For Americans in Europe, base 2015 F80s were coming in at just under 60K and are track ready (not sure of 2016 or 2017 prices). ADMs do not exist. At 60K, the base M3/M4 is slightly more expensive, but also more refined than the GT350 base, tech, or track, and has a totally different personality. A friend with an F80 drove my GT350 and insisted that my car had to be more expensive...

Also, based solely on my own experience and close observations, issues like rattles, body alignment, quirky Sync 3, seat cooling, etc, do not appear on the BMW. Even little items like the panel in the trunk that covers the spare tire are better quality in a BMW. US car makers simply have different (read lower) standards--this is true even for European-built Fords.

All of that aside, most German car enthusiasts I've spoken to would much prefer a GT350 to M3/M4 if they could get the former at the American price. Again, observations based solely on my experience.

 

[Bossing]

I agree.... German build quality, tolerances, fit & finish are levels above American made. Ironically this includes the Focus RS (made in Saarlouis Germany) where my senses feeds back "more teutonic vault-like" than the 350. Weird but I do see/feel it. I don't even want to compare the build quality and over-engineeing of Porsches to the GT350. Simply unfair.

However the GT350 makes up ground for its sound & performance over many of the European models.

 

[GT350/BT55]

Fit and finish of German cars, forget it. Amazing.
That being said, except for Porsche, (maybe Merc) the reliability issues FAR outweigh everything else with me. I don't care how nice your car is, or expensive, if it does not start, or has random electrical faults, forget it, I am done. Ford may have a VooDoo engine, BMW + Audi have VooDoo electrical systems. If yours is great - God bless you. I have had three nightmares.

 

[Minn19]

Have owned several BMWs (American and German spec). All serviced by German dealers and specialists only. No major maintenance issues with any. Haven't owned an M3/M4, but constantly run with them and have driven and done side-by-side comparisons with the GT350.

M4 is definitely a more precise and dependable build, as are BMWs in general--inside and out. Performance wise, perhaps a professional driver can separate them, but the average experienced enthusiast cannot. In some areas the M3/4 will show more agility or power, in others the GT350 pulls away. This is true whether on the highway (Autobahn), backroads, or track (assuming the GT350 is not one of the limp mode models). In that sense, they are in the same class.

So, it boils down to personal preference and price. Not sure what the M3/M4 costs in the States. For Americans in Europe, base 2015 F80s were coming in at just under 60K and are track ready (not sure of 2016 or 2017 prices). ADMs do not exist. At 60K, the base M3/M4 is slightly more expensive, but also more refined than the GT350 base, tech, or track, and has a totally different personality. A friend with an F80 drove my GT350 and insisted that my car had to be more expensive...

Also, based solely on my own experience and close observations, issues like rattles, body alignment, quirky Sync 3, seat cooling, etc, do not appear on the BMW. Even little items like the panel in the trunk that covers the spare tire are better quality in a BMW. US car makers simply have different (read lower) standards--this is true even for European-built Fords.

All of that aside, most German car enthusiasts I've spoken to would much prefer a GT350 to M3/M4 if they could get the former at the American price. Again, observations based solely on my experience.

This I 100% disagree with. They are just as prone to these issues as other brands. My F80 M3 was creaking/rattle trap and the dealer could only do so much. If you are interested just check any BMW forum and you will find thread after thread about rattles etc. That being said, I do agree the overall build quality and materials are much better. But, they better be as you are paying a premium for this. Which, actually made the rattles much harder for me to take as it was an 80k car as opposed to what I have now.

I've had iDrive issues with a few of my BMWs where it just randomly reboots or other issues. I will say though, as far as infotainment systems go iDrive was my favorite and worked the best out of everything else I've had.

Edit: M3/4 don't even have seat coolers as an option, which is a sore spot for a lot of the owners.

 

[thehygienist]

My personal opinion is this car is a combination of performance, beauty, rarity, and uniqueness, and you can't get that combo for 6X the money where I live, because every high-paid d-bag owns the same stable of performance cars that nobody looks at twice. None of them sound like my car. Obviously, I can have as much fun in my car as they can. A U.S. company designed it, so there is some nationalistic pride in play. I just don't see a single down-side to this equation whether you purchase it domestically or otherwise.

I love the way I can SEE out of this car. The way the driver side wraps around. The view of the hood from the driver's seat. The cockpit feel. The comfort of the seats. We can talk about fit and finish and squeaks and "rawness" versus refinement, but all those things pale in comparison to all the benefits of ownership. The drive-ability mixed with the driving potential. And the price.

This car makes you feel good. Because it is a dose of what it felt like to drive a car for the first time, maybe 40+ years ago for some of us. And this car gives you your confidence back at the same time because it is so capable. It makes you feel like you did when you were 16 or 18. Back when you didn't worry about money, you weren't obsessed with fit/finish and you were just focused on having FUN.

 

[Caballus]

This I 100% disagree with. They are just as prone to these issues as other brands. My F80 M3 was creaking/rattle trap and the dealer could only do so much. If you are interested just check any BMW forum and you will find thread after thread about rattles etc. That being said, I do agree the overall build quality and materials are much better. But, they better be as you are paying a premium for this. Which, actually made the rattles much harder for me to take as it was an 80k car as opposed to what I have now.

I've had iDrive issues with a few of my BMWs where it just randomly reboots or other issues. I will say though, as far as infotainment systems go iDrive was my favorite and worked the best out of everything else I've had.

Edit: M3/4 don't even have seat coolers as an option, which is a sore spot for a lot of the owners.

I'm not in a position to agree or disagree. I certainly respect and cannot discount your experiences. I am simply sharing mine.

 

[Mspeedster]

Obviously I'm biased, but I'll chime in with my 2 cents.

I can't comment on the M4, but I've owned Porsche, BMW M, Mercedes AMG and Audi over the last two decades. My wife thought I was nuts for wanting the GT350 and the fact that it was a "Mustang" was even worse in her eyes. To make sure I wasn't nuts, I test drove the BMW M2 and Porsche 991 Carrera before making a final buy decision. Yup, I wanted the GT350 over either of those two cars and I never looked back.

Maybe it's the combination of that exhaust note, power and handling, but this car is deliciously fun! Plus its menacing looks also have me enamored with it. On top of that, there's an X factor to this car that's hard to describe, it just has it.

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