Gen 3 Coyote measurements

Discussion in 'Issues, Repairs, Warranty, TSB, Recalls' started by pro 5.0, May 11, 2019.

  1. pro 5.0

    pro 5.0 Well-Known Member

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    Car is a 2019 PP 1 A10 build date was Nov 2018, the tick and 2K rattle both started around 200 miles on the factory oil, current mileage is 870 miles although this is low it shows that there is no damage in the short block even with the noises present. I measured each set of rods as a pair and on all 4 crank pins along with the crankshaft end play, the cylinder walls are mint and do not have any scratches or scoring. I have also cut open the oil filter once at 400 miles and the second at 800 miles, both times there was no metal present just a couple strings of black silicone. Factory spec for the connecting rod side clearance is .0128 - .0197 and max crank end play is .011, you can also see that the connecting rod in no way contacts the piston in the wrist pin area. I guess the mystery continues as to what is actually causing these noises as I found nothing wrong in this engine. Screenshot_20190511-173929_Gallery.jpg 20190511_150506.jpg 20190511_150529.jpg 20190511_150913.jpg 20190511_150933.jpg 20190511_151239.jpg 20190511_151341.jpg 20190511_151637.jpg 20190511_151729.jpg 20190511_153153.jpg 20190511_153301.jpg 20190511_154803.jpg
     
  2. accel

    accel Well-Known Member

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    #2 accel, May 12, 2019
    Last edited: May 12, 2019
    Great info.

    So it might be that engines within specs tick.
     
  3. Dusten

    Dusten Well-Known Member

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    Good info.
     
  4. Zinc03svt

    Zinc03svt Well-Known Member

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    Awesome. We all can now finally sleep better at night and stop making repetitive tick/rattle posts...
     
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  5. NastyPumpkin

    NastyPumpkin Well-Known Member

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    Excellent post! This new Coyote engine is a power Beast.
     
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  6. VinnyVicci

    VinnyVicci Member

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    So what do you think is causing the tick or rattle if the engine is healthy and on spec?
     
  7. NastyPumpkin

    NastyPumpkin Well-Known Member

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    I was told "cavitation" by the Ford Mustang Powertrain Engineers.
     
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  8. Condor1970

    Condor1970 Well-Known Member

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    #8 Condor1970, May 12, 2019
    Last edited: May 15, 2019
    The Typewriter tick is oil cavitation. I'm pretty certain of that now.

    The 2k Rattle sounds an awful lot like the mechanically driven High Pressure Direct Injection Fuel Pump on top of the engine. it is a plunger type pump that is lobe driven off the camshaft. At certain RPM and fuel pressure depending on throttle position, it will make a harmonic noise that is quite audible, and sounds like a rattle. The same noise can be heard in the Ecoboost engines as well, especially since the pump is almost identical in design. In fact, it may even be the same pump with a different plunger size adjusted for flow rate of needed fuel supply.

     
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  9. OP
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    pro 5.0

    pro 5.0 Well-Known Member

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    There are a couple of things to note, the valley in the Gen 3 has 2 big foam type inserts in the front and back of the block. These do not exist in the Gen 2 so the direct injection must be responsible for some noise as the inserts are there for a reason. There is actually a roller lifter between the pump plunger and the cam lobe which drives the pump, the plunger in the direct injection pump is very stiff as it takes a lot of pressure to compress it. If someone was willing to try it you could remove the lifter and the direct injection pump would not operate and if the noise went away there is your answer, however I'm not sure how much of the fueling goes through the direct injection side the car may or may not run well enough to test the theory.
     
  10. GT Pony

    GT Pony Well-Known Member

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    Good info on the lower end measurements. Did you also verify the rod side clearances with the feeler gauge method? Do you also have a video of this engine idling with the typewriter tick happening?

    There were some typewriter ticking Gen2 Coyotes reported that had excessive rod side clearances - one was twice the maximum spec. The Gen3 Coyote has it's own unique set of noises, and yes the typewriter tick is still one of them.

    What would make one engine tick from "oil cavitation" vs another identical engine running the same exact motor oil? Still too many unsolved mysteries.
     
  11. OP
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    pro 5.0

    pro 5.0 Well-Known Member

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    Dial indicator is the preferred method as a feeler gauge can very a few thousands depending on feel / drag. I'd have to look and see if I have any video footage I'm not sure that I do, however I can tell you it doesn't start to tick until about 4 mins after a cold start. I tried Ceratec and it seemed to make the tick go away temporarily but it soon returned, this leads me to believe it's related to the oiling system. This engine has so many aspects to it that I believe OLD SCHOOL thinking regarding noises such as piston slap being the 2K rattle are out the door. The cam phasers are not concentric and when you turn the motor with the spark plugs out so it's easier to turn the chains and tensioners make noises as well. I think all Gen 3 engines make the tick and 2K rattle but some just don't hear it and swear theirs doesn't do it.
     
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  12. boB

    boB Well-Known Member

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    There you go, ruining everyone's fun with facts and data. ;) Thanks for taking the measurements! I was considering it if it wasn't so involved (1+ day of wrenching).
     
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  13. OP
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    pro 5.0

    pro 5.0 Well-Known Member

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    Someone had to do it, I took one for the team lol.
     
  14. GT Pony

    GT Pony Well-Known Member

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    Would have like to hear a recording of the engine noises to see what it sounded like. Lots of noises are misdiagnosed, and that's not meant to be anything against your knowledge and efforts pro 5.0 which is appreciated for sure ... just part of any kind of investigation when collecting facts.
     
  15. OP
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    pro 5.0

    pro 5.0 Well-Known Member

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    I found a video on my phone it's 30 seconds long and too big of a file, I'm trying to trim it down stand by.
     
  16. GT Pony

    GT Pony Well-Known Member

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  17. OP
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    pro 5.0

    pro 5.0 Well-Known Member

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  18. GT Pony

    GT Pony Well-Known Member

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    Yep, sounds like the typewriter tick. Was the engine fully warm there, it sounds like the idle is higher than a fully warm engine idle.
     
  19. OP
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    pro 5.0

    pro 5.0 Well-Known Member

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    That was after I washed the car so it was luke warm but hot or cold makes no difference in the sound.
     
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  20. OP
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    pro 5.0

    pro 5.0 Well-Known Member

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    I didn't see the need to pull out any bearings as the oil filter was mint.
     
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