Gen 3 block swapping a Gen 2

[Christang.GT]

Hello all,
I am FBO cammed/CJ combo on my gen 2 but I am up there in mileage now and I was wanting to replace the rings and refresh the motor because I love my NA 8500 rpm build but then a buddy suggested to just Gen 3 swap the block. So I have been wondering has anyone done this? I would want to keep my existing Gen 2 heads and have them ported to get the max out of the NA build, so I wonder do the Gen 2 heads even fit a Gen 3 block? If so is it just a “drop in”? Anyone have any info on this? If so please respond, selling or trading my Gen 2 is out of the question, I have fallen in love with it and it has other upgrades that make it MINE so no one tell me to trade it please.

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[NGOT8R]

Sounds like a nice setup you have there @Christang.GT! do you track the car or drag race it? How much more power did you pick up with the cams?

 

[bauern]

Hello all,
I am FBO cammed/CJ combo on my gen 2 but I am up there in mileage now and I was wanting to replace the rings and refresh the motor because I love my NA 8500 rpm build but then a buddy suggested to just Gen 3 swap the block. So I have been wondering has anyone done this? I would want to keep my existing Gen 2 heads and have them ported to get the max out of the NA build, so I wonder do the Gen 2 heads even fit a Gen 3 block? If so is it just a “drop in”? Anyone have any info on this? If so please respond, selling or trading my Gen 2 is out of the question, I have fallen in love with it and it has other upgrades that make it MINE so no one tell me to trade it please.

Drop in, just gen3 pistons, head gasket and head studs. Everything else will transfer over.

 

[RazzaRossa]

I hope to see more and more of guys going this way as our cars age. Hot rodding is an American pastime. Keep us posted Christian and build that bad boy up.

 

[ice445]

Gen 3 block is stronger, but you have the plasma coating to deal with which is nice from a cost to manufacture standpoint but IMO not a ton else. There's nothing "wrong" with it really, but you ideally want to use forged pistons with it so the expansion rates are closely matched.

A Gen 2 block can be upgraded similarly with the correct machining. This article here gives plenty of info on the differences. http://www.mustangandfords.com/how-to/engine/1808-how-and-why-to-sleeve-a-coyote-block Sleeving won't be necessary for a max effort NA build with a high redline. For that you just want forged pistons and rods and good quality rings. Stock crank from all gens is basically bulletproof. Gen 3 harmonic balancer is a good upgrade as well (liquid filled versus rubber, better harmonic control at high RPM). If you are running an 8500RPM redline, you would actually benefit from comp cams or another camshaft upgrade. Could also consider VCT lockouts, but you lose a lot of low end torque. If I were you though I'd be perfectly fine with reusing the stock heads and camshafts, they're plenty good enough. Gen 3 heads are even a little bit better though, because the valves are a bit bigger and the exhaust side cam got some adjustments for more flow

 

[GregO]

I would want to keep my existing Gen 2 heads and have them ported to get the max out of the NA build,

The Gen 3 head is basically a cast version of the CNC ported 5.2 VooDoo head.
The Gen 3 head as delivered from Ford will out flow a ported Gen 2 head.
Your car, your choices, I respect that but honestly those Gen 3 OEM heads are a CFM beast right out of the box.

 

[bauern]

The Gen 3 head is basically a case version of the CNC ported 5.2 VooDoo head.
The Gen 3 head as delivered from Ford will out flow a ported Gen 2 head.
Your car, your choices, I respect that but honestly those Gen 3 OEM heads are a CFM beast right out of the box.

Unfortunately, getting the Gen3 heads to function properly (if even possible) in a Gen2 car isn't worth the effort.

 

[Christang.GT]

I have not put the car on a dyno yet I hope to soon but I need to fix an O2 sensor that keeps being burnt out but I fully expect around the 500+ WHP range
My current actual upgrades are:
Steeds cold air
VMP twin 69mm tb
Ported CJ manifold
Comp cams stage 3 NA
52 lb injectors
Corsa 1-7/8 headers
Corsa extreme
Lund flex fuel tuned .

anyway you guys are saying a Gen 3 head is better than a Gen 2 and I get that but I don’t want the direct injection and as for upgrading the internals I was considering I beam rods and the harmonic balancer because I did want that “baby GT350” build that I could bang 8500 all day but I also don’t want to go full race car because I found a Gen 3 short block brand new for 2k so that’s cheap and a drop in so why not, I was hoping with ported heads and all the upgrades and the 12:1 compression maybe squeeze out 550+WHP?
I am trying to answer everyone’s questions sorry. As for if I track it or drag it..... no I haven’t done a drag pull since the car was stock at a small local event and I haven’t taken the car on a road corse yet though I really really want to but always tell myself “well before I do let’s upgrade it a bit more” then it’s always a bit more after that.
And as for the build, well I absolutely love NA builds and the fact the coyote is such a powerhouse of a motor I want to squeeze every single drop out as I can, that is why the VCT delete etc might be up for consideration but I also forgot to mention, I daily the car, less and less as time goes by because I now have a new work truck but if there is a chance I can take my car to work I take it rain, snow, or shine on my Gen 2 cams, CJ, FBO I have 165k miles now so it’s up there

 

[GregO]

@Christang.GT
What about GT350 heads mounted to that Gen 3 bottom with the MMR 5.0 conversion kit ?
Just a thought.

 

[Christang.GT]

@Christang.GT
What about GT350 heads mounted to that Gen 3 bottom with the MMR 5.0 conversion kit ?
Just a thought.

thats something I have not thought about, my original intent on reusing my heads was to save some money but refurbishing them and porting them is going to cost a pretty penny I know. That is something I am going to look into, I didn’t want the Gen 3 heads because I have been hearing it is difficult with the direct injection and with my Gen 2 wiring harness but I will look into the GT350 heads, thanks for that idea!

 

[WildHorse]

Gen 3 block is stronger, but you have the plasma coating to deal with which is nice from a cost to manufacture standpoint but IMO not a ton else. There's nothing "wrong" with it really, but you ideally want to use forged pistons with it so the expansion rates are closely matched.

Both can make a thousand plus on stock internals. Fastest S550's on the planet are still 15-17's with the 6R80. Myself I love the gen2 coyotes. Why ? Sleeved. Gen3 Plasma bores you can't even rehone it without destroying the lining. You can't use anything related to gen 3 cams/cam timing onto a gen2. Personally I'd do the gen 2. Get some 13:1 pistons w/ a good set of rods, you're golden.

 

[Christang.GT]

Both can make a thousand plus on stock internals. Fastest S550's on the planet are still 15-17's with the 6R80. Myself I love the gen2 coyotes. Why ? Sleeved. Gen3 Plasma bores you can't even rehone it without destroying the lining. You can't use anything related to gen 3 cams/cam timing onto a gen2. Personally I'd do the gen 2. Get some 13:1 pistons w/ a good set of rods, you're golden.

woah there guys I wouldn’t even come close to 1000 hp I’m sticking all motor so I don’t need to to worry much about upgrading the internals, when I did the cams and CJ combo I put new oem timing chains, guides, tensioners and I also threw in como cams .550 Max lift valve springs since mine were worn in had about 80k miles on them and I’ve had no issues so far but I was offered a sweet deal on a Gen 3 block that is the only reason I was looking into this, I did think about swapping pistons and again some I beam rods but for that price I am getting a Gen 3 new so why not do that? Then there’s the case of the sleeves and the actual cylinder finally being a “true” 5.0 that’s why I am leaning so much to a Gen 3 I wouldn’t be really upgrading anything else if I didn’t have to besides dropping in the Gen 3, I like that GT350 head idea but I’m looking to see if my cams would even work with that and how much it would be

 

[GregO]

Stick with Hypereutectic piston on the PTAW coated cylinders.
There’s a few threads here on M6G about the GT350 head swap. MMR is a good company to reach out to.
@Christang.GT

 

[bauern]

...I like that GT350 head idea but I’m looking to see if my cams would even work with that and how much it would be

They don't unless you half-ass it with MMR modified rockers.

 

[GregO]

They don't unless you half-ass it with MMR modified rockers.

MMR rockers are half-assed ?
I’m learning, so could you explain this.

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