Formula 1 talk.

[sk47]

Everyone in F1 admits that money equals a faster car. There is even a formula for every so much spent equals a hundredth, tenth, whatever.

So it is not unreasonable to suggest if Mercedes also went over budget by several millions that their drivers would have been faster on every lap. Someone would have to then go back on the season and mathematically figure out if it would have mattered or not...which in and of itself is tough because this would have also changed decisions on pitting, tires, etc.

However, given how close the championship was it is not unreasonable to think this might have changed who was the champion.

Hello; You are correct in that any number of decisions different from what happened could have changed the outcomes for all 20 drivers over the course of a season. Here is an analogy I use sometimes about a basketball game outcome.
Say a player throws up a last second buzzer beater shot that gives his team a win. Lots of folks say he made the winning shot. True enough in a narrow sense, but omits all the other points his team scored up to than last moment. The points of the player who made the first basket also were critical to the outcome.
Thing is the race director (masa ???) at the time apparently had the authority to make a call and did so. That avenue was tried in order to attempt to rewrite history and has failed. That person (masa??) lost his job it seems in a cancel culture sort of way. The outcome stands.

Now another attempt to get the outcome desired by an upset group in in the works. Some sort of fuzzy logic around how the Mercedes would have been faster if they had outspent other teams. Two points follow. One is that seasons MB was the generally faster car or at least equal to the closest competitor. We saw how close the cars were a number of times. Turned out a set of new tires made the difference. One teams call worked out better that the other.

The other is the idea that a minor over spending by MB would automatically make a difference. How many times has some NFL team paid big bucks to draft a top pick who never made the grade is one example. Back to my previously made point. The MB was already a top car and had the lead in hand but decided to keep track position on older tires. Just a close call or rather a call that almost worked if the race was a couple of corners shorter.

As to whether I know much about F1 as one member questions, I do have a long history of following the sport. I also have a long history of following NASCAR. Thing is NASCAR determined we fans did not like seeing races end under a yellow flag. We want to see the drivers race to the end. I think it is the same for F1 fans and even F1 bosses know that. No matter if this latest ploy to change an outcome works the fact remains the season ended with the top competitors actually racing each other on the track.

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[gixxersixxerman]

the fact remains the season ended with the top competitors actually racing each other on the track.

let me fix this for you. The fact remains the season ended by Masi breaking the rules… period, that’s it… end of story. Yes all of us fans would love to finish under green then yellow. But that’s not the rule. The rules were broken and that’s what you simply can’t understand. I don’t, and no one that I really know wants the outcome to change, it’s in the past no reason to try and have it over turned. But that you keep thinking it’s ok to change some rules because you did it here or there with your local grassroots stuff, doesn’t change the fact these rules were broken. And whether you admit it or not, you’d be cry a river of Lewis pitted, Max stayed out and Masi did the same And Lewis passed him, the “Orange Army” would be doing literally what anyone but RB and Max fans are doing now. It’s not even Merc funds or Lewis fans, it was most the paddock and racing organizations out thereYou are only playing dumb because for what ever reason you don’t like Lewis.

at least when others talk about why they don’t like Lewis they have points, you seem to parrot what others say over and over and even admitted many times a little while ago you don’t even follow the sport.

 

[sk47]

let me fix this for you. The fact remains the season ended by Masi breaking the rules… period, that’s it… end of story. Yes all of us fans would love to finish under green then yellow. But that’s not the rule. The rules were broken and that’s what you simply can’t understand. I don’t, and no one that I really know wants the outcome to change, it’s in the past no reason to try and have it over turned. But that you keep thinking it’s ok to change some rules because you did it here or there with your local grassroots stuff, doesn’t change the fact these rules were broken. And whether you admit it or not, you’d be cry a river of Lewis pitted, Max stayed out and Masi did the same And Lewis passed him, the “Orange Army” would be doing literally what anyone but RB and Max fans are doing now. It’s not even Merc funds or Lewis fans, it was most the paddock and racing organizations out thereYou are only playing dumb because for what ever reason you don’t like Lewis.

at least when others talk about why they don’t like Lewis they have points, you seem to parrot what others say over and over and even admitted many times a little while ago you don’t even follow the sport.

Hello; Two points. First the rules were not broken. Every live event has some sort of event manager with the authority to make calls. Evidently that was a guy named Masa. He made a call about having the race finish under green. The teams made calls of their own. That Masi or whoever made the call had the authority is confirmed by the fact the results did stand after the uproar by the MB team and fans of LH. That part is done and dusted.
There have been some repercussions from the outcry. Masi lost his job and a race finished under yellow once this season with an ironic outcome. That finish played out well for RB -Max and poorly for MB - LH. Karma maybe. So, the race director no longer can make a call on yellow flags near the finish. Did that help the sport?

Second point is i have followed F1 since the 1960's. First only by articles in Road & Track magazine. Then decades later as the races were televised or at least when I got access to channels which televised the races. maybe the 1980's but for sure in the 1990's. Again, you are wrong about that but even if i were new to the sport my take is valid. The MB and Lewis champions could not get the results changed with the Masi outcry and are now trying a new tactic.

 

[Inthehighdesert]

Your parroting the same thing. Hamilton lost, period. One race didn’t do it. And it never seizes to amaze me how Hamilton fans always disregard every break he had during the season and only focus on the last race. He LOST, plain and simple. He didn’t change his tires and got eaten alive because of it. The one thing that is consistent is how whiney Mercedes is, from the top to the bottom. They need to put in there big boy pants and make there car competitive. F1 and Mercedes in particular has more drama then the fake WWE, and that says a lot.

let me fix this for you. The fact remains the season ended by Masi breaking the rules… period, that’s it… end of story. Yes all of us fans would love to finish under green then yellow. But that’s not the rule. The rules were broken and that’s what you simply can’t understand. I don’t, and no one that I really know wants the outcome to change, it’s in the past no reason to try and have it over turned. But that you keep thinking it’s ok to change some rules because you did it here or there with your local grassroots stuff, doesn’t change the fact these rules were broken. And whether you admit it or not, you’d be cry a river of Lewis pitted, Max stayed out and Masi did the same And Lewis passed him, the “Orange Army” would be doing literally what anyone but RB and Max fans are doing now. It’s not even Merc funds or Lewis fans, it was most the paddock and racing organizations out thereYou are only playing dumb because for what ever reason you don’t like Lewis.

at least when others talk about why they don’t like Lewis they have points, you seem to parrot what others say over and over and even admitted many times a little while ago you don’t even follow the sport.

 

[Bikeman315]

This warms my 70 year old heart. Mario was always a favorite of mine.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...tti-drives-mclaren-formula-1-car/10512288002/

82-year-old racing legend Mario Andretti takes 'satisfying' joy ride in F1 car

 

[Inthehighdesert]

I firmly believe the secret to live is to not ever stop living. And I really hope Andretti pulls off an F1 entry.

This warms my 70 year old heart. Mario was always a favorite of mine.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...tti-drives-mclaren-formula-1-car/10512288002/

82-year-old racing legend Mario Andretti takes 'satisfying' joy ride in F1 car

 

[raptor17GT]

Hello; Two points. First the rules were not broken.................
snip

oh but the rules were broken, if one cannot agree on that then what's the point in even turning up

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/...si broke rules in controversial F1 finale,-F1

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/...nored-to-go-racing-at-the-end-of-abu-dhabi-gp

 

[Bikeman315]

oh but the rules were broken, if one cannot agree on that then what's the point in even turning up

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/articles/single-seaters/f1/fia-abu-dhabi-report-finds-masi-broke-rules-in-controversial-f1-finale#:~:text=FIA Abu Dhabi report finds Masi broke rules in controversial F1 finale,-F1

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/...nored-to-go-racing-at-the-end-of-abu-dhabi-gp

I know this is most likely an impossible request but for the love of God can we please stop discussing 2021?

 

[raptor17GT]

I know this is most likely an impossible request but for the love of God can we please stop discussing 2021?

sorry, I had to point out the obvious but consider my input over. Wonder if i can block this thread from ever showing..

 

[HoosierDaddy]

I had to point out the obvious

I thought the definition of obvious is "no need to point out". Confused.

 

[Bikeman315]

sorry, I had to point out the obvious but consider my input over. Wonder if i can block this thread from ever showing..

Thanks but please don’t leave the thread just because of one poster’s obsession with 2021.

Save the thread, ban the poster!!

 

[Inthehighdesert]

Simply ignore it and move on.

sorry, I had to point out the obvious but consider my input over. Wonder if i can block this thread from ever showing..

 

[sk47]

oh but the rules were broken, if one cannot agree on that then what's the point in even turning up

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/articles/single-seaters/f1/fia-abu-dhabi-report-finds-masi-broke-rules-in-controversial-f1-finale#:~:text=FIA Abu Dhabi report finds Masi broke rules in controversial F1 finale,-F1

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/...nored-to-go-racing-at-the-end-of-abu-dhabi-gp

Hello; What keeps being dismissed is the person in charge at the time and on the scene of a race was apparently Masi. His role was to make decisions in real time and he must have had authority to make on the scene changes. Not sure what his correct title may have been so will use "race director".
That his decision did not follow the letter of the rules at the moment is not an unusual circumstance during such events. That is the reason a real person is in charge at these events, so some unusual circumstance can be dealt with. That dealing with a circumstance can involve not following the as written rules.
It is my understanding his decision has been upheld even following the aftermath of protests. That challenge is done, dusted and finished. The stance appears to be that yes, he did not go by the letter of the rules, but he had the authority to make changes on the fly. Also, that those changes stand.
That some are unhappy with him, and the outcome is clear. He lost his position and the new race directors will be going by the letter of that set of safety car rules. They did so during a race this current season and a race finished under a safety car and not under competition.

Some of us, including myself, would have been fine with the outcome had Lewis actually finished in front of Max after the racing restarted. Not because Lewis has some sort of divine right to another title but because he actually did win and get the needed points.
The points for a championship were tight and close throughout that season. So, close it was who finished in front of the other got enough points to be champion. Under racing conditions that turned out to be Max.
What I and some others are seeing is an agenda to get Lewis that title after the fact. If the spending cap punishment is finally decided against RB, some of you will only be happy if it takes that championship from Max and by default goes to LH. Of all the possible punishments that appears to be the only one many will be happy with.
Bottom line is some want Lewis to have the most championships overall and how that happens does not matter. I do not care for Lewis for similar reasons I grew to not care for Michael Schumaker (sp). If Max becomes a whining, I'm entitled sort I will grow tired of him as well. Some of his radio talk and team interactions leave me wondering if all who make it to the top become an "it's all about me" sort.
An analogy is some football quarterback who starts to believe the hype. I saw Tom Brady shouting at his linesmen during the game recently. A touchdown or game win belongs more to the line than a quarterback. Quarterbacks and running backs do not do well without a good line. Same for F1 drivers without a good car and team.

 

[Bikeman315]

Good article. I’ve always liked DC.
https://www.planetf1.com/news/david-coulthard-disconnect-teams-liberty-fia/

Some additional thoughts.
https://theprint.in/opinion/dashboa...-finishes-to-lengthy-season-schedule/1169704/

 

[Vlad Soare]

There's something I don't quite get. Why must the total number of laps and/or the total duration of the race be set in stone?
If the prescribed race duration happens to expire while the safety car is on the track, then why can't the race be extended by the number of laps the safety car was on track? Wait until the safety car is out, then do two or three extra laps, finish the race under race conditions, and everybody's happy. That would be the most fair way of dealing with such situations. And yet nobody seems to even suggest it, let alone do it.
What's the catch? Why is it so important that the race ends exactly when it was originally supposed to?

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