Ford PP 2 Pinging

[tubingchamp]

Doesn't sound like a ping to me. Sounds more like a vibrating flap with air hitting the flap. I probably wouldnt worry about it if the log shows nothing wrong.
Thinking about it, I may have heard that noise at low loads before but rarely not sure? Maybe I'm imagining things. Car's runs well otherwise.

Maybe email Ford perf and see if they have anything to say about.

Here's a dyno of pp2 and pp1 as comparison. Your dyno curve does seem funky for sure. Since it was a mustang shop they should know what they were doing, but I there might be a small chance they forgot to properly disable traction control by pulling the plug or fuse and causing weird dyno results. Did they do that?

Well, I know I had a message about AdvanceTrak, and ABS when I got the car back that cleared itself' pretty quickly. They should know what they are doing- but i'm not sure. He seemed quite adamant it was pinging, and recommended I move back to stock. He was also able to get one clean run, but it took 3 attempts, so I'm pretty sure they did the dyno properly.

I did that today, and it is running much better, also the sound is gone..

I will definitely bring it up with Ford Performance, but I'm not going to install it again. If there's a chance it's a ping, I don't want to be damaging my motor..

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[georgev]

Please let me know what Ford performance says.

 

[IngotSilverS550]

When I talked with Ford Performance they told me it was "Catalytic Converter impingement". Whatever that means. They alsontold me the tune is very conserative and that its not possible for it to detonate/ping.

 

[slag1911]

When I talked with Ford Performance they told me it was "Catalytic Converter impingement". Whatever that means. They alsontold me the tune is very conserative and that its not possible for it to detonate/ping.

Typical "help desk" answer. See if you can get them to pass you through to an engineer.

 

[revinto7]

these cars have knock sensors -should not be pinging .

 

[tubingchamp]

Please let me know what Ford performance says.

They said I have too much oil in my intake, and it needs to burn off before it will get any better...

I said I wasn't really happy with that response, and they told me to send an e-mail to [email protected]..

No reply yet on the e-mail.

 

[tubingchamp]

these cars have knock sensors -should not be pinging .

Do agree, but it made that sound, metallic crackling / rattling, that was also hindering performance, while the motor was under load. The sound disappeared after flashing back to stock.

Not sure what else it could be.

 

[georgev]

Do agree, but it made that sound, metallic crackling / rattling, that was also hindering performance, while the motor was under load. The sound disappeared after flashing back to stock.

Not sure what else it could be.

I listen to the sound clip again, at 32 and 45 seconds I can hear that strange noise, like metal flapping but it’s definitely not a pinging sound. Have you given Ford Performance the clip? I’d like to hear the response to the recording.

 

[tubingchamp]

I listen to the sound clip again, at 32 and 45 seconds I can hear that strange noise, like metal flapping but it’s definitely not a pinging sound. Have you given Ford Performance the clip? I’d like to hear the response to the recording.

I will do once I get a response from them.

The thing is, it disappeared after removing the parts / reflashing. Something to do with their kit either way.

 

[highvoltage]

My car does this. Developed after about 15000 miles. Now does it for 1000 miles after every oil change. Mine happens at 2k-2500k rpm only. No change in any performance and logs are all good

 

[tubingchamp]

My car does this. Developed after about 15000 miles. Now does it for 1000 miles after every oil change. Mine happens at 2k-2500k rpm only. No change in any performance and logs are all good

Most likely a similar sound, but different issue. I'm actually due for an oil change this month, and was definitely having performance issues.

 

[white15gt]

Well, I know I had a message about AdvanceTrak, and ABS when I got the car back that cleared itself' pretty quickly. They should know what they are doing- but i'm not sure. He seemed quite adamant it was pinging, and recommended I move back to stock. He was also able to get one clean run, but it took 3 attempts, so I'm pretty sure they did the dyno properly.

I did that today, and it is running much better, also the sound is gone..

I will definitely bring it up with Ford Performance, but I'm not going to install it again. If there's a chance it's a ping, I don't want to be damaging my motor..

That sounds like they didn't disable the ABS/STM/TCS...That would cause weird dyno curves

 

[tubingchamp]

Just wanted to give an update.

Ford Racing has agreed to take back, and issue me credit for the PP2. They say it's really unlikely that I'm actually getting pinging, and are doing this as a good-will gesture.

Totally did not expect them to. They are even paying for their freight back.

I'm definitely going to be buying more parts from them in the future, they really stand behind their product.

 

[TheLion]

Just wanted to give an update.

Ford Racing has agreed to take back, and issue me credit for the PP2. They say it's really unlikely that I'm actually getting pinging, and are doing this as a good-will gesture.

Totally did not expect them to. They are even paying for their freight back.

I'm definitely going to be buying more parts from them in the future, they really stand behind their product.

IF your having issues with their calibration I'd suspect you will have even more issues with an after market calibration. I would avoid that. Ford Performance calibrations are typically more conservative than most after market calibration's. Not only that is if you damage your pistons, rods etc. you will be paying for it out of pocket. With Ford Performance you have a factory warranty to fall back on. Interestingly their calibration makes about as much as most after market 91 calibrations and only their straight 93 offerings really provide more power, but also higher risk. Reliability trumps all!

They offer a warranty because of the extensive R&D and testing. They know their modifications are highly reliable and have co-developed them with direct access to the 5.0 development engineers. I've not experienced any sort of pinging that I've been able to hear.

I have had the ECU pull some timing under extremely hard driving for sustained periods (full passenger load, 20 minutes straight of full throttle on back roads as soon as I could get on it in 90F heat with AC on...that's more or less track conditions, if I wasn't on the brakes, I was on the gas!).

It wasn't huge, but I did loose some edge. Once it cooled off after 20~30 mintues cruising on the highway the ECU pushed more timing back in and the edge it normally has came back. I never heard knocking even once. No abnormal behavior (even stock GT PP's will pull timing on the track). No CEL or over temp nannies. Oil temp has been up to about 3/4 of the green on the idiot gauge, but no higher so far.

I've since added an oil separator (as of yesterday) as I believe the ECU pulled some timing most likely due to fuel dilution. I asked Ford Performance about it and they said it's a common issue with 5.0's even stock in track conditions and higher temps. Motor Trend had that same thing happen on their bone stock PP GT after a few laps they even noted it in their review. Nothing was over temp on their car either yet it pulled a few degrees of timing most likely due to oil vapor inhalation. But I've never heard audible knock, Power Pack 2 or stock.

I'd stick with suspension modifications and maybe at most a CAI that does NOT require an ECU re-calibration. The car is still very powerful even stock and while it falls short of a Power Pack 2 or Power Pack 3 GT or the latest Camaro SS, it's not that far behind and if your more track focused, handling is more important than raw power anyways. The 2015 SS 1LE with its less power 430 HP LS motor and 3800 lbs + weight ousted a stock 2015 PP GT on the track at willow springs. Why? Because it handled better. Power to weight of a stock 2015 PP GT is slightly better than the older SS yet it was slightly slower even though the PP GT would typically would run .1 to .2 faster on the 1/4 than the 2015 SS 1LE.

Sorry to hear you couldn't get it to work. I wonder though if there's a mechanical problem some where that the stock ECU calibration is more or less "hiding". It is more conservative obviously than the Power Pack 2 calibration and the issue may be present but no exacerbated under the operating conditions of the stock calibration. In the mid-range is where knock is the most likely to occur, not at the top end, right where torque is at it's maximum.

 

[TheLion]

Update here..

After hearing the rattle / ping, I got fed up and went to a local mustang shop. He popped it on the dyno and told me that there was too much timing below 5K rpm. I've attached the dyno sheet. He said it is not a rattle, but definitely pinging.

Am I going to have any luck dealing with Ford Racing on this?

Also- oil catch can is installed.

Thanks

https://imgur.com/a/cWQZ3Xc

BTW that dyno graph shows an issue. It looks nothing like what it should on anything below 5,700 RPM. Torque is way down for even a stock car, especially in the mid-range right about 4k to 5k. You should see a double hump on the torque band.

Do you suppose...the calibration didn't' upload properly? What if your running the stock ECU calibration with the Power Pack 2 hardware...or is the flash didn't occur correctly and a few segments of EEPROM were left with the factory code.

Remember the Power Pack 2 calibration is a tweaked variant of the original ECU calibration. It's not a whole new architecture. That dyno indicates a problem. Do you by chance have a dyno of the car stock? You should get the done just to prove or disprove a mechanical issue.

If you get similar behavior then you should take it into the Ford Dealership as there's an issue even if it doesn't make noise stock, it may be running in a "limp mode" or reduced power mode. Maybe a bad cam phasor (the mid-lock cam phasors actually fail to mid-point, which is safe for operation to avoid damage but wouldn't obviously offer optimal performance).

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