First track day...brake question

[Vettel-ish]

Ha! Dude is having a rough year for sure.

So happy to see McLaren is doing well this year, tho. New regulations can't come soon enough

Danny ric and Lando!! Thats my new fav team for sure!

Vettel will retire. No point anymore.

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[oldbmwfan]

I've tried similar things with "family-fun"-level go-karts (for others: because it takes so long for them to get into the RPM power-band again, that it's faster to keep on the gas while braking, rather than release the gas, brake, then push on the gas and wait a long time for the RPM to build up again), but in Schumacher's graph, he completely lets go of the throttle for a split second at the end, so he has to accelerate from no throttle in the end anyway.
What is the benefit of keeping his right foot on the gas in this case? Looks like his right foot keeps pressing the gas a little bit the whole way while breaking, then completely lets go of the gas for a split second before flooring it.

I found that interesting, too. This chart is from the Montreal hairpin, which is a really tight, late-apex corner. I'm guessing the light throttle application throughout is just to keep more weight biased to the rear and work all 4 tires on the very long trail-brake into the apex. F1 cars have plenty of power so that last bit of coasting before throttle application isn't much of a penalty. Note Rubens coasts for 10m with no pedal inputs at the same point.

@honeybadger, agree on the smoothness of Schumacher's brake application. Also note that while he's a tad slower/ more gradual into the brakes, he also reaches a higher peak brake force. This is % application, not g, but the effect of gradually loading a tire is more max grip (vs. suddenly loading it).

I'm a decent driver, not great. The difference between me and a great driver is that a great driver will be at the tire's limits for more of the time. The difference between a great driver and someone like Schumacher is that for Schumacher, the inputs are so smooth and gradual that he actually coaxes a higher limit out of the tire. The left-foot braking + throttle helps do that, too, by balancing the weight of the car and distributing the work across all tires optimally. It's pretty special.

 

[JAJ]

Current F1 engines have turbos and the cars have KERS to capture energy as they brake. The light throttle through the brake zone could be holding the turbo speed up or it could be loading extra energy into KERS beyond just the amount from braking alone. Different cars will need different techniques, as the graphs show.

 

[oldbmwfan]

Current F1 engines have turbos and the cars have KERS to capture energy as they brake. The light throttle through the brake zone could be holding the turbo speed up or it could be loading extra energy into KERS beyond just the amount from braking alone. Different cars will need different techniques, as the graphs show.

True, but that was Schumacher in a V10 in the mid-'00s. One of the reasons they could go to throttle so fast was those cars had traction control.

 

[JAJ]

True, but that was Schumacher in a V10 in the mid-'00s. One of the reasons they could go to throttle so fast was those cars had traction control.

Ah - missed that bit. The brake pressure curve is perfect, so maybe it's just a way to adjust front-rear brake balance on a corner by corner basis.

 

[oldbmwfan]

Ah - missed that bit. The brake pressure curve is perfect, so maybe it's just a way to adjust front-rear brake balance on a corner by corner basis.

Yep, and that ability is what made Schumacher such a standout. Most F1 drivers are left-foot brakers now, and it's critical in turbo cars to keep things spooled for instantaneous response as you said. But back then, most drivers had grown up in 3-pedal cars and not all could play that balance game so well. Not to go totally off-topic, but google Walter Rohrl pedal cam if you want to see some amazing footwork in vintage iron.

 

[matthewr87]

There is a fluid measurement tool which can tell you how much water is in your brake fluid... I use that as a guide, but I do change mine every year if I track the car:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005HVG4GQ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1


And I highly recommend this power bleeder, been using it on all my cars, makes fluid changes a one hour affair:

https://www.amazon.com/Motive-Produ...keywords=motive+bleeder&qid=1597095021&sr=8-2

Question about the measurement tool. Does brake fluid actually circulate from the calipers back to the reservoir? Or is the mixing more of a passive diffusion?

Is it conceivable that the fluid in the reservoir will have different characteristics than the fluid that is in the calipers and lines?

 

[torque124]

Question about the measurement tool. Does brake fluid actually circulate from the calipers back to the reservoir? Or is the mixing more of a passive diffusion?

Is it conceivable that the fluid in the reservoir will have different characteristics than the fluid that is in the calipers and lines?

You are very correct . The fluid in the reservoir could and most of the time is, in better shape than the one in the caliper. Especially if the caliper one has boiled, as the water has been absorbed. I usually collect the first leak when bleeding it into the small cap of the brake fluid bottle and test it to see how bad it was. It is usually around 2-3% water content when I change it, where as the reservoir shows very little , under 2%.

But yeah, measuring at the reservoir is a good guide on how old the fluid is and what is the water content. Anything over 3, just change it.

 

[Arknsawchuck]

Well I tossed the stock pads. Should I buy some track pads for this and next month or just run the Z26 and be careful?

I would run what ya have. The z26 work just fine, I just wouldn't say they are the best out there. I plan on doing autocross and track runs with mine. Besides, its sure nice to have clean wheels...lol

 

[adherrera722]

I'll be there with my 17 blue 350 as well. Group 2 was sold out so I'm in group 3 on sunday.

I got one track day out of my stock fluid. Brakes never faded but the fluid was burnt when I changed it. Front oem pads lasted me two track days. Putting in new ones before Sunday. Rears are still in good shape. Probably could get one more out of the fronts but it's not worth the risk

This will be the last track day on my stock super sports. Not bad considering 5k and 2 track days.

What day/group are you running?

 

[Vettel-ish]

I'll be there with my 17 blue 350 as well. Group 2 was sold out so I'm in group 3 on sunday.

I got one track day out of my stock fluid. Brakes never faded but the fluid was burnt when I changed it. Front oem pads lasted me two track days. Putting in new ones before Sunday. Rears are still in good shape. Probably could get one more out of the fronts but it's not worth the risk

This will be the last track day on my stock super sports. Not bad considering 5k and 2 track days.

What day/group are you running?

NICE!! Looking forward to it. Well I will have all new everything at this point.

Running group 4. # 19 Sunday. Have to work Sat.

 

[adherrera722]

Nice! NWS does a good job running their events. Instructor they gave me my first time was good. Older guy that runs miatas. Very knowledgeable.

Track is a good setup. Can pretty much run in 3rd the whole time except the 2 straights.

 

[Vettel-ish]

Nice! NWS does a good job running their events. Instructor they gave me my first time was good. Older guy that runs miatas. Very knowledgeable.

Track is a good setup. Can pretty much run in 3rd the whole time except the 2 straights.

Excited to have a day in the car. Bonding with it.

Been watching videos of it like crazy, trying to memorize the corners and lines.

 

[adherrera722]

Haha! You'll be way ahead of me. Went in blind.

Only downfall of the track day is you'll be really bored driving on the street from here on out. Rarely take mine out anymore. Haha

 

[Vettel-ish]

Haha! You'll be way ahead of me. Went in blind.

Only downfall of the track day is you'll be really bored driving on the street from here on out. Rarely take mine out anymore. Haha

LOL I can see that. Road america in the next 4 weeks. My dream track. Then its all downhill lol

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