Factory theft resistance?

[Jaymar]

Literally said twice I'm not interested in replies like this. Move along.

To the others, I'm a seasoned car enthusiast. I'm 100% aware of various theft deterrent and prevention techniques.

MY QUESTION WASN'T ABOUT THAT

My question is on the effectiveness of the FACTORY set-up and, really, I wanted someone who knows the technical side of how this specific car works.

Other replies unnecessary.

Probably because that is the actual answer to your question. The rest is just armchair fantasy BS better reserved for "enthusiasts" that watched Gone In 60 Seconds with too much enthusiasm. What's somebody going to do? Honestly? Bypass the transponder key system with a factory remaster routine from the laptop? Bring a known good ECU for that specific car? For what? To now be in possession of a stolen car that is only worth the part out value if you can get it stripped before you get caught. It's just a Mustang, parts are common and not worth a lot. The guy taking the car can do all that work for a small cut of the part out or he could use those skills someplace more profitable, the economics aren't there. It's far easier to tow off, steal the keys or settle for low hanging fruit and smash and grab what's in the car. People are trying to answer your question but you insist on telling them what you want to hear instead.

Sponsored

 

[ZeroTX]

People are trying to answer your question but you insist on telling them what you want to hear instead.

Literally not one single post here answered my question, and several go down a road I don't need help understanding (tow-offs, stolen keys, fraud, kill switches, parking in a garage).

My question is how the factory theft-resistance system works, specifically, from a technical standpoint. No other replies are needed that do not cover this topic.

Thanks.

 

[PaddyPrix]

The theft deterrents are annoying enough if you are legitimately working on your car. If I'm working on the car, and they key is over the trans hump just enough, it will refuse to start with a key not present error... I slide the key over an inch, fires right up. If I have the car too close to the garage door and need to roll it back, clutch in to roll, or in neutral and pushing it back a few inches back, it notices that that the car is in motion and fires the alarm off, which is annoying as I'm usually working on it late at night. I've got various PATS boxes all over the place making a wiring mess. Detaching your steering wheel with your manshifter is a nice theft deterrent, and I don't even have windows.

My car is actually a theft recovery, but all the little knickknacks and annoyances above haven't changed my mind that it was an inside job for some kid on terminal pay who realized he couldn't afford the insurance and payments as a 20-something with no job. Good for him, I guess, but much better for me.

 

[Louk]

Literally said twice I'm not interested in replies like this. Move along.

To the others, I'm a seasoned car enthusiast. I'm 100% aware of various theft deterrent and prevention techniques.

MY QUESTION WASN'T ABOUT THAT

My question is on the effectiveness of the FACTORY set-up and, really, I wanted someone who knows the technical side of how this specific car works.

Other replies unnecessary.

Here is your answer… if someone buys the programming for the key on the black market they can steal your car.
someone must have pissed in your cheerios

 

[Jaymar]

Literally not one single post here answered my question, and several go down a road I don't need help understanding (tow-offs, stolen keys, fraud, kill switches, parking in a garage).

My question is how the factory theft-resistance system works, specifically, from a technical standpoint. No other replies are needed that do not cover this topic.

Thanks.

I haven't had to bypass the push-button Fords, as I said it's been a few years, but I'd be very surprised if it drastically changed in fundamentals because it was a good system. The old system used a passive chip in the key that responded to a challenge from the transponder in the ignition switch. All functions were handled internally to the CPU and fuel was cut. I don't recall if it was pump signal or injectors, injectors would certainly have been harder to bypass and would have only required a small coding change so I'd bet on that one. Again, I don't know the specific nuts and bolts of the modern system but given that passkey removal used to be a part of the ForScan project and has to be done on project car crate engines I'd also feel safe assuming two things: Coding is still contained in the ECU for PassKey and there exists people with the software knowledge to do a factory remaster and/or PATS bypass programming of the ECU. With enough effort a reasonably bright person could steal a Mustang. But they can also get a job that pays a lot better with that same knowledge.

 

[Buldawg76]

Agree with all you stated in above post as far as possible/have occurred scenarios. Also sorry for your dads misfortune with his 2 trucks. I have no real info on actual workings of the fords security/theft systems in any detail.

I do know that the ford pass app will allow you to locate your vehicle wherever it may be at any given time unless the thief has a way to disable that feature when they steal the vehicle. So you can at the very least track it and notify the police of its location.

There is a thread here dealing with disabling the telematic function of the fords that continually transmit data about your driving habits and vehicle locations to ford for data mining your info for sale to third parties, but not sure this disables the ford pass ability to track vehicle since it does not affect the Nav or Bluetooth systems. Its simply pulling the #10 fuse from the right side kick panel fuse box that powers the TCU module in the trunk.

IMO best means of protection of your investment is pay insurance company for additional coverage for full replacement value for theft. Then if it gets stolen you can just go buy another new vehicle.

I have a dog that barks at the slightest noise and live in a castle doctrine state so if you are on my property without my permission there is a very strong chance you will not be leaving on your own two feet. Plus my neighborhood is very close knit so if you don't live in the neighborhood you will be noticed and info documented/recorded by someone who lives here.

If I see a tow truck in my neighborhood I will be asking questions and calling the vehicle owner to inquire as to whether they are having vehicle towed or not before vehicle is moved by tow driver.

I know this does not give the exact info you are asking for, but then also not sure gaining the info you are after will help you prevent theft in first place.

Being hyper vigilant and aware of your surroundings/area go's a long way to deter crime.

BD

 

[ZeroTX]

Agree with all you stated in above post as far as possible/have occurred scenarios. Also sorry for your dads misfortune with his 2 trucks. I have no real info on actual workings of the fords security/theft systems in any detail.

Thank you for your post! It was really a pretty traumatic time for my dad and I'd like to avoid ever having to be in his shoes if at all possible.

I do know that the ford pass app will allow you to locate your vehicle wherever it may be at any given time unless the thief has a way to disable that feature when they steal the vehicle. So you can at the very least track it and notify the police of its location.

It's a good idea and a possibility, depending on how dumb the thief is, but unfortunately it won't work if the vehicle is parked in a metal shop, and if it's anything like OnStar, the professional thieves DO know how to disable it, immediately.

There is a thread here dealing with disabling the telematic function of the fords that continually transmit data about your driving habits and vehicle locations to ford for data mining your info for sale to third parties, but not sure this disables the ford pass ability to track vehicle since it does not affect the Nav or Bluetooth systems. Its simply pulling the #10 fuse from the right side kick panel fuse box that powers the TCU module in the trunk.

Interesting! I may need to read up on this. I don't really care for Ford (or anyone else) getting data about where I am located or my driving habits. Frankly, since my car is a manual and doesn't have remote start, there's not much useful about the app. I can lock/unlock doors, but so what? I literally cannot think of a single scenario where this would be necessary. You cannot "lock the keys in the car" on a push-button start car. It won't lock with a key fob inside. So that means the key fob is with the owner/driver.... outside of the car. The same place where our smart phone is, haha. Great feature to remote start from far away (say, walking out to your car from the mall or something), but useless for a manual car. If it doesn't set off any errors, I might consider pulling that fuse... Hmm. I'm not confident that the GPS data from the car would actually work for theft recovery, TBH.

IMO best means of protection of your investment is pay insurance company for additional coverage for full replacement value for theft. Then if it gets stolen you can just go buy another new vehicle.

I had almost gone with an agreed-value classic car type policy; which new Mustang GT's qualify for, but there are severe restrictions. From what I can tell, no standard insurance policies offer agreed-value policies, only fair market value policies. Meaning, they are supposed to pay you to replace the vehicle with exactly what got stolen (e.g. 2022 model w/ ?k number of miles and ? options). So if that's 5 years from now, that means buying someone else's 5 year old used car instead of the car that I meticulously maintained and cared for. Grrr. If there's a mainstream carrier who doesn't have limitations like "cannot drive to work" ... that also does agreed-value policies, then I'd definitely be onboard!

I have a dog that barks at the slightest noise and live in a castle doctrine state so if you are on my property without my permission there is a very strong chance you will not be leaving on your own two feet. Plus my neighborhood is very close knit so if you don't live in the neighborhood you will be noticed and info documented/recorded by someone who lives here.

If I see a tow truck in my neighborhood I will be asking questions and calling the vehicle owner to inquire as to whether they are having vehicle towed or not before vehicle is moved by tow driver.

I appreciate the way you expressed this, as a lot of the posts like this are dismissive... like "well just park it in the garage." Thank you!

Guys. I'm not worried about the car being stolen out of my driveway. In fact, it's inside the garage every night. That's of ZERO concern to me, because I also live in Texas and anyone stealing something (at night) in my driveway is likely not not leave on their own two feet, either. That's not my issue. The issue is your car doesn't just stay at home. Your car is VASTLY more likely to be stolen away from home. Let's think about this from a thief's perspective: At home, you're more likely to face the wrath of the vehicle owner, who is stationed mere FEET away from the car you're trying to steal! Better idea? Places where people leave cars for a long period of time and are not within earshot and cannot see it. Strangers won't stop to figure out why someone's car alarm is going off, and they'll assume maybe you just locked your keys inside..... So won't do or say anything.

So, where? Apartments with parking that's far from the unit, shopping malls, Walmart, grocery stores, movie theaters (guaranteed to stay inside at least 2+ hours), sports arena parking (3+ hours), employer parking lots (8+ hours parked), parking garages (esp. work, where you're gone 8+ hours), concert parking (3+ hours), cruise parking (5-7 days parked), etc.

Believe me, smart thieves aren't trying to steal cars out of your driveway or garage unless you've been personally and specifically targeted or they're filling a specific vehicle order and they have a method to get that specific vehicle very quickly and easily. Yes, it does happen, but that's not what I'm worried about.

I park the Mustang in the garage and then disable the garage door opener. My F150 is outside, because it won't fit in the garage, and I have a metal locking cover over the OBD2 port and a "The Club" on the steering wheel overnight. When I get a chance, I've thought through what I think will be a very effective anti-theft method on this truck, which is a hidden switch that disables the solenoid that releases the shift lever out of park. It's a column shift truck (not console) and the override for the column lock is complicated and chances are slim a thief knows it. (unlike the console, which has an easily accessed button).

Neither of those things are fool-proof to prevent theft, but both are potential ways to slow down or frustrate a thief who will look for something easier. I mean, like 27 of my neighbors have F150's, why would they want to spend time on the one that has extra things making it harder to access? (answer: they probably wouldn't)

I know this does not give the exact info you are asking for, but then also not sure gaining the info you are after will help you prevent theft in first place.

Being hyper vigilant and aware of your surroundings/area go's a long way to deter crime.

I agree... I hate when people post things here (not you) assuming that the poster is some kind of naive person who doesn't know things like this. I mentioned I'm a seasoned automotive enthusiast. I've been knowledgeable on cars starting at age 5 when I could recognize makes and models by just seeing them. I've lived in the 4th largest urban area in the United States for the past 27 years. I've worked in downtown Houston (and parked a car there for 8-10 hours daily). I've taken a car apart to a degree much more than the average Joe and have had to figure out things on my own. I have a basic idea of how the majority of things on a car work, even if I don't have the tools to work on them. I've had a concealed handgun license since 1998. I've lived (in my 20's) in sketch apartments in the city with a brand-new car at the time, and had to implement create kill switch ideas to work on keeping my car from being stolen. I put a kill switch (ignition) in an 'unspecified location' as well as a "The Club" on the wheel. Could it still be stolen? Absolutely. Is a thief going to bother? Probably not, unless they have a 'client' who needs that exact car.

Thank you for your post!

 

[Buldawg76]

Zero
Understand not wanting to go thru what your dad did for sure.

You are correct in that the ford pass app will not work if vehicle is in a metal shop, but I can tell you from experience that the ford pass app is very accurate in tracking the vehicle to within 50 feet of its actual location whether its parked or moving and can be refreshed every 30 seconds or so. I have done so with my last two fords while the wife was traveling alone out of state to make sure she was safe and arrived at destination safely. it gives exact address of location.

You state that you are not so much concerned about when vehicle is in your garage at home but when it's not at home and that is where the ford pass app can be of benefit also since you can periodically check to see if it is still where you parked it or not. If not, then you can alert police with its current location and direction of travel on actual roadway. Yes, a pro thief will likely be able to disable the ford pass quickly as well.

Unfortunately, if you pull the telematics (TCU) fuse #10 it will also disable the ford pass app from working so it's a no-win scenario in that respect. My self am not really worried about ford data mining my info since the number of companies that do the same thing today is mind boggling and you will never stop all of them from selling your info. Plus, you are on camera 98 percent of the time wherever you go nowadays unless you are far out in the country. Big brother is watching all the time. Here is the thread on disabling the telematics system.

4G Modem Disabling Instructions: | 2015+ S550 Mustang Forum (GT, EcoBoost, GT350, GT500, Bullitt, Mach 1) - Mustang6G.com

I live in a rather small town of maybe 80 to 100.000 population so by no means have the same threats/ worries that a city the size of Houston will have and honestly have never had any desire for big cities and the crime/problems that they foster from sheer number of people concentrated in cramped quarters.

Two things that will work to slow down the thief insisted on stealing your car are the one already mentioned here being the club that clamps inside the ring of the steering wheel so that the car cannot be steered more than half a turn in either direction or a wheel boot that prevents the car from being rolled at all.

I can tell you that if someone wants your car bad enough the only way you can prevent them from stealing it is to literally sleep with it.

I was thinking that either Hagerty or Grundy agreed value insurance companies did not have limits on use of vehicle they insure at agreed value. I had checked awhile back for coverage on my bikes and unless I am mistaken one of them did not have usage limits.

I am a retired ASE master certified tech of 50 years and can truly say there is always a way to steal a car regardless of the technology or trick you try to do to prevent it. As you stated your best bet is to make your car less desirable than the next guys by making it more of a hassle in time and effort than it's worth to the thief.

BD

 

[Vlad Soare]

Literally not one single post here answered my question, and several go down a road I don't need help understanding (tow-offs, stolen keys, fraud, kill switches, parking in a garage).

My question is how the factory theft-resistance system works, specifically, from a technical standpoint. No other replies are needed that do not cover this topic.

Thanks.

Maybe it would help if you asked more specific questions. "How the system works" and "how resistant it is to theft" are quite general phrases, hence the general answers you've received.
It seems to me you already know how it works, and you are already aware of its vulnerabilities - and quite thoroughly at that. What exactly would you like to know?
How it works is simple. The key emits RF pulses. The car listens for such pulses. If a known pulse is detected when you press the start button, and it's detected inside the car, then the engine will start. If it isn't, then a second system steps in, which emits a RFID kind of signal inside the cup holders. If a correct reply is received, then the engine will start. If it isn't, then it won't. That's all there is to is.
Are you interested in the minutest details, like how many bits are encoded in those signals, and exactly how they are encoded, what encrypting algorithms and keys are used, how often they are changed, which module does what, and exactly how it does it at the lowest level, what signals travel back and forth through the CAN bus until the engine starts? That kind of things?

The system is obviously vulnerable to signal cloning, and to the programming of a new key by getting physical access to the OBD port - which you already know. It's also vulnerable to other car theft methods, like towing or carjacking - which you also know and aren't interested in. What are you actually asking? Whether there's a distinctive theft method, apart from all the others, that might apply specifically to the Mustang? No, I don't think there is. Whether the Mustang is intrinsically more or less secure than other vehicles that use a passive key system? No, I don't think it is. I think it's on par with the others. Whoever steals a modern Jaguar or Mercedes will steal a Mustang, and vice versa.

 

[Michael_vroomvroom]

As I understand OP, he is basically wondering how can people steal our cars without using our keyfob (directly or by relaying the signal) or a tow truck.

I too am interested in the answer to that question.

I have only vaguely heard about the OBD-2 reprogramming thing, but don't know if that's a real thing or not. A few days ago I did coincidentally browse a national facebook group where people report stolen cars, and it said the group averages 9 posts a day. Since it only contained depressing posts with pictures of stolen cars (and a few happy "found it!" posts), I did not care to join that group, but I cannot imagine all those cars are stolen via tow trucks. Several also appeared to have been stolen from shopping mall garages, which would make keyfob signal relaying rather unlikely too, though not impossible.

Must be like in the movies, where they just drag a few wires out from under the steering wheels and connect them I guess.

 

[Skye]

I think it will be difficult to find the answer in an open forum like this. Interested parties are asking for security vulnerabilities involving not just Mustangs, but potentially Ford's entire product line. I'm sure if Ford (or any other vendor) began readily finding people posting ways to circumvent their security systems, they'd be reaching out to the Moderators to remove the information immediately.

I'd try searching for and begin reading up on Black Hat-like community conference notes, briefings and participating in those communities specific to the topic at hand.

From my personal experience, I've found Grabber Blue Mustangs are impervious to theft. Robbers are so stunned by the awesome color they stand in silence, immobile, giving the community time to call to po-po and arrest them.

 

[Vlad Soare]

Several also appeared to have been stolen from shopping mall garages, which would make keyfob signal relaying rather unlikely too, though not impossible.

Quite the contrary, I think shopping mall garages are the perfect place for that. At home you may store your key in an RF-imprevious pouch, but when you step out of the car to go shopping you'll have it in your pocket. As you walk towards the entrance into the mall and your car gets out of your sight, one guy goes near the car while another one follows you closely enough to pick up your key signal and to amplify it. If the mall happens to have a revolving door, where there are usually several people standing in line waiting for their turn to enter, a guy having the device in his pocket standing right behind you won't raise any suspicions whatsoever.

 

[paulm1]

I'd like to know the answer to the OP's question as well, my window sticker on my '21 says "Enhanced Security Package $500". I hope I didn't pay $500 for just wheel locks.

 

[Vlad Soare]

my window sticker on my '21 says "Enhanced Security Package $500".

That's most probably the alarm. Possibly also the locking wheel nuts.

 

[Skye]

I'd like to know the answer to the OP's question as well, my window sticker on my '21 says "Enhanced Security Package $500". I hope I didn't pay $500 for just wheel locks.

Ford has "passive" and "active" security systems. The $500 afforded you the active system, which is principally composed of all the passive devises, but also includes 1) interior motion detectors, 2) a central locking console and 3) wheel locks.

Sponsored