Dyno results - seem low?

[ChipG]

I mean, that's very cavalier of you to spend $900 of your hard earned money, plus several dyno sessions etc. to show the community little to no gains from this product.

However, we could have saved you all that trouble and told you from the get go that it's a big waste of time and money as this particular product is mainly a scam. You're not the first here to try one of these "chips" that you just plug into your OBD2 and magically get 50hp with no tuning.

Looking through the forums, there are a broad range of opinions on the part from folks using it - there were plenty of people in the forum "we" quite happy with it (one long thread here). It appeared, on the whole, to provide some gains even if the maker claims were unreasonably high (that's hardly unusual). Hard to tell what's real and what's placebo effect without concrete evidence. It's not like this is a "vortex generator" for your intake to get 50mpg. Sampling ethanol percentage and adjusting timing isn't voodoo (pardon the pun); E85 gains are clearly possible, and pre-packaged tunes can provide gains even if not maximizing them as a custom tune does, so it seemed reasonable to try it out with modest expectations. That said, if this particular package is snake oil and the gain is zero or nearly so, I'll out them and be happy at stock power levels until I'm no longer concerned about warranty.

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[EFI]

pre-packaged tunes can provide gains even if not maximizing them as a custom tune does. Sampling ethanol percentage and adjusting timing isn't voodoo

True, but this isn't even one of those. A canned E85 tune would actually change the parameters of the engine. This one doesn't do that. Without actually flashing the ECU with a new tune file, it's not "adjusting the timing". It looks like it just adds a fuel sensor that then displays a pretty graph on your smart phone. That's the reason why it's warranty friendly because it doesn't actually do anything to your ECU.

 

[EFI]

FYI guys, I am returning my system. I have opted to buy a bluetooth analyzer locally for $100, and a $50 content sensor so I can still have visibility into ethanol content and temperature (yes these sensors also output fuel temp).

This guy in that thread said it perfectly. It's basically a sensor and a bluetooth display. Nothing more.

 

[ChipG]

This guy in that thread said it perfectly. It's basically a sensor and a bluetooth display. Nothing more.

At minimum, also modifying injector pulses, otherwise we could all just fill with E85 and run just fine.

 

[honeybadger]

I agree with the general consensus that your numbers seem low and the commander is likely the cause. Would be interesting to get a data log and see what kind of timing it's running at those numbers. From my experience, a stock engine should be putting down 465-470 peak unless atmospheric conditions or the dyno isn't favorable.

 

[Thuglike]

Don't get hung up on what a dyno says. You can take your car to 10 different dyno's and get 10 different readings. They are a tuning tool. A slight change to 1 variable will change everything you see. Weigh your car. Take your car to the drag strip. Then do simple math.

 

[Angrey]

Don't get hung up on what a dyno says. You can take your car to 10 different dyno's and get 10 different readings. They are a tuning tool. A slight change to 1 variable will change everything you see. Weigh your car. Take your car to the drag strip. Then do simple math.

Normally I'd agree, but adding E85 and simply altering the A/F without a tune would result in slightly lower output. Unless a tuner is adding in timing, the PCM isn't going to take full advantage of the fuel and run it to the edge of knock. The tuner will alter the timing such that the car can advance to the edge of knock.

I'm betting if he removed the piggy back and dyno'd the car he'd have seen slightly higher peak numbers on 93.

With a proper tune, SAE correct smoothing 5, there's no way the car is that low without something either wrong with the motor, or something wrong with the dyno calibration. As it is, I'm betting the piggy back is neutering the output a bit.

 

[PaddyPrix]

Don't get hung up on what a dyno says. You can take your car to 10 different dyno's and get 10 different readings. They are a tuning tool. A slight change to 1 variable will change everything you see. Weigh your car. Take your car to the drag strip. Then do simple math.

Unfortunately for him racing with NASA, he kinda needs to get hung up on what a dyno says. In a way though, it is to your advantage to read low. If you're not looking to do a bunch with your car and said warranty at some point, perhaps TT3 is a good fit. In my region, that's where they tend to hang, because they're not willing to gut and shed all that weight.

 

[hlfbkd420]

I’ll be the first to admit that I’m confused by the question and also the product.

 

[Inthehighdesert]

What elevation are you at?

 

[john@fatfab]

We baseline dyno all our GT350 builds on our dynojet before any work is done. They range from 450-480. Most of the cars are about 460-470. 93 pump gas bone stock. Your number is at the far low end for a pump gas. I would take that stuff off and put it back on 93 pump and dyno it again. If it's even lower I would do a compression and leak down test

 

[BadHabit2Break]

I also run the Advanced Fuel Dynamics piggy back in my GT350. Its the only mod I have and did not pay $900 for it. I did go back and forth on either getting this or a tune many times. But my plans for the car was to not throw a bunch of engine mods to it and just enjoy it.

I use it for AutoX. I don't care about HP numbers anymore, as said above....go to 10 different places and get 10 different numbers. I have seen the car run cooler on the track (203 degrees vs. 208 degrees with 93 octane) and the black soot not there anymore. I don't think it gives 50HP by any means, but more like maybe 10HP at best with the correct ethanol.

I did notice the OP stated that it was reading 73% Ethanol. I can say with mine, I get between 85% - 87% Ethanol. Depends on where you get your E85. So that might be a factor of your numbers being a little low to you.

 

[john@fatfab]

I don't care about HP numbers anymore, as said above....go to 10 different places and get 10 different numbers.

This is the reason we bought a dynojet is the fact you can't manipulate the numbers by changing drum weights or other parameters in the software. Its looked at as the industry standard in that regards. Our dynojet will read the same as any other dynojet with the same car. Yes they do correct for atmospheric conditions, but they show what the correction factor is during the run. You can also look at uncorrected as well. The only time the correction number shouldn't be trusted is if you had a forced induction car and your dyno is located in a high elevation like Colorado or something. If this happens to be the case then the corrected numbers will be a little high as the forced induction cars aren't effected as greatly as a NA car. The only way you can "cheat" a dyno jet is to change the conditions around the controller stack. Like putting a heat gun to it so it show much hotter ambient air temp versus what the car is seeing. However doing so will show a higher correction number and will be easily identifiable.

 

[Angrey]

This is the reason we bought a dynojet is the fact you can't manipulate the numbers by changing drum weights or other parameters in the software. Its looked at as the industry standard in that regards. Our dynojet will read the same as any other dynojet with the same car. Yes they do correct for atmospheric conditions, but they show what the correction factor is during the run. You can also look at uncorrected as well. The only time the correction number shouldn't be trusted is if you had a forced induction car and your dyno is located in a high elevation like Colorado or something. If this happens to be the case then the corrected numbers will be a little high as the forced induction cars aren't effected as greatly as a NA car. The only way you can "cheat" a dyno jet is to change the conditions around the controller stack. Like putting a heat gun to it so it show much hotter ambient air temp versus what the car is seeing. However doing so will show a higher correction number and will be easily identifiable.

I've heard there's other "tricks" like how close or far the temp sensor is and how much slippage the operator is observing. In an industry where businesses rely on enthusiasm and attention, hero and glory pull numbers are just frankly, part of it. You well know the most important aspect of a dyno as a tool is evaluating the "change" or delta in a modification against a baseline and then from there a rough adjustment until a final street log can be made. As others have said, the overall number isn't as important as the jump or change.

We thank guys like you who understand that manipulating dyno sheets is a short sighted affair.

I'm curious with as many crazy HP cars as you guys have built that you guys haven't gone to a hub dyno. Seems like a lot of the crazy high power cars are going more and more to that.

 

[john@fatfab]

I've heard there's other "tricks" like how close or far the temp sensor is and how much slippage the operator is observing. In an industry where businesses rely on enthusiasm and attention, hero and glory pull numbers are just frankly, part of it. You well know the most important aspect of a dyno as a tool is evaluating the "change" or delta in a modification against a baseline and then from there a rough adjustment until a final street log can be made. As others have said, the overall number isn't as important as the jump or change.

We thank guys like you who understand that manipulating dyno sheets is a short sighted affair.

I'm curious with as many crazy HP cars as you guys have built that you guys haven't gone to a hub dyno. Seems like a lot of the crazy high power cars are going more and more to that.

You are correct that the most important reason for the dyno is evaluating the change on the same car. The fact that the OP did get the dyno runs done on a dynojet and knowing what the average is for stock GT350s are on a dynojet (we have done literally hundreds of stock GT350 pulls) I would want to investigate a little further if it where me. I suspect its more likely the piggy back flex fuel thing doesn't work as well as it should. For peace of mind I would do a pump gas stock tune run just to see where it is at. If it makes basically the same on pump and stock tune, then he is fine. Just saying that is at the low end of the spectrum for a bone stock pump gas car and he is on E85.

We will eventually get a hub dyno once we expand. For now every square inch is accounted for and working on expansions plans currently.

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