Does The EcoBoost Need A Catch Can?

[wireless]

Checked my catch can after ~1500 miles the other night.

Dirty, nasty stuff in it -- but there was nearly nothing in it, as reported above.

A few complaints:

#1) When I installed it, I noted how my plastic fittings didn't thread in all the way. When I pulled the can today, they were completely loose, which made removing the hoses quite difficult. I was able to hand tighten them with ease -- loosened up after time??

#2) The (2) Allen keys on the top... one was easily rounded off. Seemed to be very thin, and I was surprised -- I don't usually have an allen key round off, usually only phillips. Kind of saddened by that lol

Overall, it was easy to empty. I am happy with my purchase. I am hoping my fittings are not loose the next time I check the can, but that will likely be in 4-5000 miles, given how little I found in the can this time.

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[Dirtleg]

Made a change to the hose connections on the catch can today. I decided earlier that I'd like to be able to remove the hoses from the catch can. I also thought about going to a metal connector so this is what I came up with.



I was really wishing for a different retention system rather than a hose clamp but haven't found that solution yet. I wonder if there are heat shrink clamps that would work for this? Hmmm.

 

[OVRKILL]

I was really wishing for a different retention system rather than a hose clamp but haven't found that solution yet. I wonder if there are heat shrink clamps that would work for this? Hmmm.

There are lots of alternatives to hose clamps. Ford uses spring clamps on the coolant lines, or you could look at t-bolt clamps or compression fittings, all of which will keep the hose intact.

 

[Diablocoastie]

Dirtleg, there is a T shaped tool for using some wire to act like a hose clamp and looks REALLY good once complete. I'll try to find it and post a link to it. I use it at work and it makes clamps a thing of the past. It can be used on all sizes and hoses.

 

[Diablocoastie]

Here you go.
WWW.Clamptight.com

 

[Dirtleg]

Thanks for the ideas. I found some gates heat shrink clamps that I'll try first. If they don't hold under boost that wire clamp certainly will.

 

[Mishimoto]

So I guess an update is in order here.

I've put about 1400 miles on since installing my catch can. Opened it up today after 1000 miles since I last checked and found basically nothing in there. A couple of CC's of mostly fuel blowby from what I can tell. There was a little oily sludge in the mix but it wasn't in any way significant.

I'm surprised by the low, low amount of blowby. Expected much more.

Now onto the first, and only so far, flaw in this part. The O-Ring. The standard O-ring is I believe of Buna-N construction. While it may handle oil just fine we're introducing fuel, spent exhaust gases and heat to the equation. As such I noticed the first time I checked the catch can that it was getting loose. This time it has swollen beyond it's service limit. Mind you it's only been installed for 4 weeks. So I'd guess these O-rings are low grade even for Buna-N. Sorry Mishimoto but it's true and unacceptable. This is what I'd expect from the Dormans of the world not you. You can do better.

Standard Buna is good from -30 to about 250*F. I decided Viton would be a much better solution (-15 to 400*F and much greater chemical resistance) in this application and as such have decided to share my solution with anyone who may need or want to know.

For the record, I truly believe based on my real world experiences, that any O-ring under the hood of a car should be Viton at the minimum or better. I've bought enough of them to fix leaky this and that over the years. From BMW hydroboost to Diesel injection pumps.

I believe the trade size for this O-Ring is a 139. Correct me if I'm wrong Mishimoto as it was a little difficult to get the exact size due to it being swollen but 138 seemed to small.

I ordered a pack of 10 for $6.35 from McMaster-Carr. Part #9464K139.
By comparison the same size in Buna-N was $6.12 for 50.

So all in all I'm still happy with the unit as really it's just an o-ring but hey if we never give any feedback, good or bad, how can things get better.

That's it for now.

Thanks for the feedback! As with your findings, we did see that most of our collection was fuel. That being said, it sounds as if we had a bit more accumulation in fewer miles than you reported. Let us know what you find during the next interval.

We appreciate the feedback regarding the o-ring. As you noted, we rely on this to improve our products and processes. I will notify our team about the swelling you experienced.

-John

Thanks for the info, Dirtleg.

Also, here's my install video from today. It was a big pain for a small job, really... I've done parts of supercharger installs that weren't as annoying as fitting these parts in this engine bay. I don't know how I ever had room to do work on my 5.0 Coyotes!

Thanks again for posting up your install guide!

I managed to get mine installed today. I got the pcv side off and installed without raising the car this time. I removed air box and slide my hand under the intake manifold and under the 3 T radiator hose connection and right above the engine mount and could get my hand around the connector and press down on it with my thumb to release it. I left some notes on the mishimoto's youtube install video(which had some missing info I believe)

Thanks for the notes and feedback from installation!

No a single valve isn't better. When you hit the gas and the car builds boost a single valve is literally not doing anything so your engine is unprotected during those times.

A dual valve can works when driving normally and in boost. Bottom line, if you barely ever drive hard you may not see the benefit. But if you don't mind spending a bit more the dual valve is better.

Thanks dragon. During our development of this kit we tested both the crankcase breather line and the PCV-side line to determine how much buildup was collected from each system. During our tests, we were not able to achieve any blow-by collection from the valvecover breather line. Our testing included both on-road and dyno driving to provide a mix of full-throttle and normal driving conditions.

These results led us to release our PCV-side single catch can system which we have proven to effectively remove contaminants.

Thanks
-John

Checked my catch can after ~1500 miles the other night.

Dirty, nasty stuff in it -- but there was nearly nothing in it, as reported above.

A few complaints:

#1) When I installed it, I noted how my plastic fittings didn't thread in all the way. When I pulled the can today, they were completely loose, which made removing the hoses quite difficult. I was able to hand tighten them with ease -- loosened up after time??

#2) The (2) Allen keys on the top... one was easily rounded off. Seemed to be very thin, and I was surprised -- I don't usually have an allen key round off, usually only phillips. Kind of saddened by that lol

Overall, it was easy to empty. I am happy with my purchase. I am hoping my fittings are not loose the next time I check the can, but that will likely be in 4-5000 miles, given how little I found in the can this time.

Thanks for the feedback! Let us know what you find with the next contaminant inspection.

1. These fittings feature an NPT thread and should not be threaded in completely. They will seal once snug and do not require any torquing. During the initial install, what process did you take to install the fittings? I believe over-tightening may damage the fitting threads which could result in loosening over time. If so, we may need to send out a set of replacement fittings. Let us know!

2. Interesting, we use a similar bolt on a variety of our catch can kits and have not reported any issues with them stripping out. Let me know if you need a replacement fastener.

Made a change to the hose connections on the catch can today. I decided earlier that I'd like to be able to remove the hoses from the catch can. I also thought about going to a metal connector so this is what I came up with.

I was really wishing for a different retention system rather than a hose clamp but haven't found that solution yet. I wonder if there are heat shrink clamps that would work for this? Hmmm.

Interesting modification, very clean work! Any specific reason you would prefer these to be removable in such a manner? Would you prefer to remove the entire can from the engine bay for draining?

-John

 

[dragonacc]

Thanks dragon. During our development of this kit we tested both the crankcase breather line and the PCV-side line to determine how much buildup was collected from each system. During our tests, we were not able to achieve any blow-by collection from the valvecover breather line. Our testing included both on-road and dyno driving to provide a mix of full-throttle and normal driving conditions.

These results led us to release our PCV-side single catch can system which we have proven to effectively remove contaminants.

Thanks
-John

It may not push oil at factory or slightly raised boost levels, but the crank case will be pressurized during boost and at some point oil will be pushed the other direction. I did a good bit of reading on other platforms before making my decision on which system to buy.

I'm not trying to sell anyone on one system or another honestly, I don't care what people buy. A single valve will probably be fine for the majority of people in reality, but it's not the best solution (IMO).

 

[Ron@cp-e]

It may not push oil at factory or slightly raised boost levels, but the crank case will be pressurized during boost and at some point oil will be pushed the other direction. I did a good bit of reading on other platforms before making my decision on which system to buy.

I'm not trying to sell anyone on one system or another honestly, I don't care what people buy. A single valve will probably be fine for the majority of people in reality, but it's not the best solution (IMO).

why would the Mishi can push anything ?
it's not a single valve can
it's just a catch can, no valves, check vales, etc.
the same pressures are present with or without the can
it's a go between the intake manifold and block to catch oil/oily vapor

most other platforms remove the vacuum line from the turbo inlet in favor of a small breather on the valve cover to prevent what you are saying the Mishi can will cause

 

[Dirtleg]

Interesting modification, very clean work! Any specific reason you would prefer these to be removable in such a manner? Would you prefer to remove the entire can from the engine bay for draining?

-John

Thanks for the compliment.

My reason is that I just prefer having the ability to easily move things out of the way when working under the hood. Nothing wrong with your configuration IMO just me being particular.

Removing the entire can would be overkill. I've done it twice now and it's not too bad as it is.

 

[tittermary]

UPR has a more complex internal design and dual valves which supply the car with two sources of vacuum for the PCV system.

With the Mishimoto can (and other single valve cans) when the car builds boost the can gets pressurized and the PCV system will run in reverse pushing oil out the original vacuum source (right where the turbo inlet is). Basically without more than one source of vacuum for the system the can will only function when the car is out of boost.

and how does the stock pcv system work under boost?

 

[tittermary]

It may not push oil at factory or slightly raised boost levels, but the crank case will be pressurized during boost and at some point oil will be pushed the other direction. I did a good bit of reading on other platforms before making my decision on which system to buy.

I'm not trying to sell anyone on one system or another honestly, I don't care what people buy. A single valve will probably be fine for the majority of people in reality, but it's not the best solution (IMO).

this is simply not true

 

[Saluki_stang]

I checked my UPR single valve catch can. I have driven about 600 miles and had about 1.5 oz of oil with a little gunk in the bottom. I'm glad I made this my first mod once I got home from dealer

 

[dragonacc]

this is simply not true

Just saying I'm wrong doesn't make it so... But, I'm not going to argue with you in Mishimoto's thread (edit: except for the next post because I missed your first response to me... ). If anyone wants to know why I feel I'm right feel free to PM me.

Again, I don't care who's catch can you buy, or if you buy one at all. There's nothing wrong with Mishimoto's can if a single valve can will meet your needs.

 

[dragonacc]

and how does the stock pcv system work under boost?

Sorry, just saw this. It doesn't. The crank case gets pressurized while you are in boost. Now I'm done.

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