disappointed

[BMR Tech]

Try to keep in mind, there are way too many variables when trying to compare the price point of the other cars.

For example - those cars mentioned above, to make them handle a heavy engine / 400+hp would add substantial cost alone. My example for that is, put the S550 Coyote Engine in those cars and go beat on them to redline until parts fail. It won't take very long.

Also keep in mind material cost. I mean, comparing a miata to a 3700lb Mustang? That is really not even possible.

At the end of the day, I feel the S550 Mustang is priced and performs right where it belongs.

When you have to start comparing specific pieces of a car, and voiding items etc...throw price comparing out the window.

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[SpeedLu]

To be fair, even the PP leaves a LOT to be desired in a performance package. I'm not the only one that agrees, most mags think so too. It's already cheaper, throw the book at it, or offer a "track" pack on top of the PP, for another 2k? and really go to town on the suspension and wheel/tires. A 4500-5k package that gives the GT350 mag suspension and sways, and wheel widths on MPSS? Yes please.

They would sell a lot of those, I'd suspect.

FRPP (and others) already offer the upgrades you seek. I specifically purchased a Base model because I knew this and wanted better than the PP suspension. The aftermarket is there for you and this allows Ford to offer an "everyman" car in an inexpensive package, so the people who want performance at a value are satisfied, and the people who want better performance have access to improvements if they're willing to spend money. The Camaro is a high-performing sportscar at a high pricepoint which already has the improvements you seek, stock. This seems to be what you're looking for. However, Camaros are not selling while Mustangs are. Which company has the better sales plan?

 

[Evil Minion]

Soft spring A doesn't cost any less than 5% stiffer spring B. Crappy rubber bushing A costs pennies less than stiffer better rubber bushing B.

Sorry, but this statement is making wildly inaccurate assumptions on your part, and is likely very much wrong.

If Ford has a supplier that sells them 1,000,000 A Springs pear year, and only 500,000 B Springs per year, basic math and common sense will tell you it costs twice as much to manufacture and therefore buy B Springs by Ford (obviously simplified, but gets the point across).
Same with the bushings, if all of their other vehicles use those soft bushings, the piece price for them will be significantly lower than the harder bushings.

Ford obviously know this, which is why they sell the more expensive harder ones aftermarket for those that want them, since they also know that 95% of buyers don't care.

The manufacturing world is much much bigger than your idealistic engineering perspective. I was there once too, starting out as an automotive ME before going up into project management and having my eyes opened.


Also yay for killing time on a Friday afternoon! Time to go home for me! Autocross in the morning

 

[daltron]

You are correct. Take motor out of the equation. All of the above cars have better designed suspensions for similar or less price point.

So take out the counter argument to your argument, and your argument is true? Got it.

Thank you lol.

 

[Sharad]

Pathetic suspension?

I think Ford hit a home run with the S550s. I bought a base 2016 5.0 (because I'm poor) and I'm amazed at what I got for $30k. I've been wrenching on Mustangs since the 80s, and this platform is light years ahead of the past generations.

Yes, my car was a bit too soft for me when I bought it (literally and figuratively) so I bought some UPR/Ridetech suspension, upgraded to 275s all the way around, and added an MBRP cat-back so I could actually hear the thing. IMHO, the performance/dollar ratio is off the charts!

Obviously, it's a great foundation because the Mustangs are kicking butt in IMSA roadracing.

I think Ford delivered a world class pony car for a reasonable price. If anything, I wish it was a little lighter.

 

[Commbubba19]

Sorry, but this statement is making wildly inaccurate assumptions on your part, and is likely very much wrong.

If Ford has a supplier that sells them 1,000,000 A Springs pear year, and only 500,000 B Springs per year, basic math and common sense will tell you it costs twice as much to manufacture and therefore buy B Springs by Ford (obviously simplified, but gets the point across).
Same with the bushings, if all of their other vehicles use those soft bushings, the piece price for them will be significantly lower than the harder bushings.

Ford obviously know this, which is why they sell the more expensive harder ones aftermarket for those that want them, since they also know that 95% of buyers don't care.

The manufacturing world is much much bigger than your idealistic engineering perspective. I was there once too, starting out as an automotive ME before going up into project management and having my eyes opened.


Also yay for killing time on a Friday afternoon! Time to go home for me! Autocross in the morning

Makes sense. I still think they could have standardized on one quality bushing set.

 

[Doctor Fishtail]

You know i haven't seen much on here regarding the really pathetic ford design for the mustang suspension. This simply shouldn't be accepted.

Seriously - after digging in and replacing god knows how many parts just to get the car to handle decently is pretty pathetic nowadays. I mean the whole IRS design is just a load of BS. Did Ford not learn from the 99-04 cobras that their cradle design sucked? How was this deemed an acceptable to ford management and engineers?

I guess I'm venting but it seems counter intuitive to build a 'muscle' or 'pony' car which is widely accepted as a performance vehicle but make it as soft as a fricken Cadillac. RWD IRS vehicles are not new. Ford should have easily been able to design a rear suspension platform that actually worked without bandaid'ng the platform with pathetically soft bushings everywhere to hide their poor design.

What really burns me up is that Ford knows it and then sells upgraded bits that should have been on the car in the first place. Proper bushings in the control arms for camber and toe. Stiffer vertical links that don't flex like they're made of plastic.

The thing is, as an engineer, i know that usually a good design can still be done keeping cost effectiveness in mind. I guess i'm just really disappointed in the bushings Ford chose to go with on this car. And the excuse that the aftermarket can take care of it is just lame justification. I really feel this will be my last ford product. I stepped away for over 5 years and came back really hoping to be impressed. I'm not. I'm glad I got my car for as cheap as I did because it isn't worth any more than what I paid.

Cannot agree with you more. I knew this suspension would need some twerking but Jesus Christ !!!! Worst suspension I have ever owned. Now I am coming from a Grand Sport Corvette and that suspension needed nothing. Never needed to use brakes while turning. The Corvette is a gazillion times better than this Ford suspension. I knew it would be bad compared to the Vette but not this damn bad!!:frusty:

 

[Optimum Performance]

I.Dont.Even.Know.What.To.Say.

 

[Commbubba19]

By the way. Finished installing the following parts.

Ford track pack
Shocks/struts
Springs
Sway bars
Strut and K brace
Steeds gtrac brace
Steeds red diff bushings
Bmr cb005

I did not do the toe links or toe bushings.

Really this is how the car should be from the factory. I have zero increase in NVH and the ride is solid and firm. Not bouncy or floaty and def not harsh.

The above cost me around $1750 or so I think.

Honestly to save my self the pain and time id pay double to have the car like this from the factory.

 

[Guard5.0]

The base car felt fine at stock HP levels. Not sports car good but "grand touring" good. If you add power you'll need to upgrade suspension components to make it turn efficiently.

 

[Indyorangepony]

i like the way my base gt handles. i'm not "tracking" it or even street racing. I drive like a moonshine runner, i drive crappy roads while hauling fragile cargo.It goes where i want it to. I've driven down some really questionable creek bed entrances and not rubbed a thing, and there were folks standin there waitin for something bad to happen.I've not lowered it or anything, just added borla s-type cat-back.It runs faster everytime I drive it and I'm at 14,000mi.It does what I want it to do so far, and I feel safe in it.

 

[Evil Minion]

i like the way my base gt handles. i'm not "tracking" it or even street racing. I drive like a moonshine runner, i drive crappy roads while hauling fragile cargo.It goes where i want it to. I've driven down some really questionable creek bed entrances and not rubbed a thing, and there were folks standin there waitin for something bad to happen.I've not lowered it or anything, just added borla s-type cat-back.It runs faster everytime I drive it and I'm at 14,000mi.It does what I want it to do so far, and I feel safe in it.

Off topic, but since I noticed you're around Indy, we have a local facebook group you need to join (if you haven't already) Indiana 6G Mustang

 

[ForTehNguyen]

By the way. Finished installing the following parts.

Ford track pack
Shocks/struts
Springs
Sway bars
Strut and K brace
Steeds gtrac brace
Steeds red diff bushings
Bmr cb005

I did not do the toe links or toe bushings.

Really this is how the car should be from the factory. I have zero increase in NVH and the ride is solid and firm. Not bouncy or floaty and def not harsh.

The above cost me around $1750 or so I think.

Honestly to save my self the pain and time id pay double to have the car like this from the factory.

put a square tire setup with quality tires to fully transform the car. Youre still going to be limited by junky 235 all seasons

 

[Boss]

You would have hated the 12/13 Boss,other than the engine,they cheaped out on almost every other piece...... That shit sifter,two piece drive shaft(I went through 3 in 30k miles)2 pinion seals....not to mention the countless owners with blown MT-82's. The 12/13Boss was 6k over a GT ....a lot to pay for forged internals and a stripe package

All that being said when you pushed your right foot down you forgot all about the small problems that warranty fixed.....that engine IS A BEAST

 

[racer24crm]

Ford really should have made the Voodoo engine, magneride suspension, and carbon fiber wheels standard and kept the price around 30k...........

Seriously, Ford has to build a car to make money and you do that by moving as many units as possible. If they start adding more expensive parts the cost goes up and that can instantly eliminate a huge portion of potential buyers. As it stands now you are buying a car with performance that you would have to be fairly rich to buy 10 years ago.

There has always been two points to the Mustang; A) Sell an attractive car with solid performance that the average person can afford and have fun in. B) Sell a solid performing car for a good price that the gear head can use as a starting platform to build a car they can tweak into whatever they want.

You have to remember that adding better/more expensive parts to a car from the factory doesn't drive the price of just your car up, it drives the price of all cars in that product line up. Ford isn't going out and buying one set of parts for each vehicle they are building they are buying everything in bulk to keep cost down overall and make building them more efficient.

They buy $5 (made up number) worth of better bushings per vehicle and sell 100k of the mustang, that translates $500k cost. Averaging all mustang sales to around 30k per car (including GT, ecos, and v6) that's another 167 cars you need to sell. Now, you figure that they aren't tacking $5 more onto each car because you don't make money by selling things at cost, they're gonna tack $10 on each car because standard business is to charge at least 50% more than what it costs you. That doubles 167 cars to 334 cars. Next thing you need to realize they're not making $30k on each car, I have no idea the actual cost for Ford is but we'll say $15k, now the number jumps to 668 more cars need to be sold.

Sure, in the grand scheme 668 cars more doesn't seem like a lot but thats just from adding $5 more to a car for one specific part. Imagine upgrading a ton of parts to a car and jumping the base price of a car up $1000, the cars they need to sell jumps astronomically.

My point is that they need to draw the line somewhere to hit a price point that will move units. You can see this with things like keeping the classic prop rod instead of hood struts or using cheaper, heavy wheels. You could argue that they could have put a skimpy interior in the car an increased the performance but then the average person would probably not buy the car because the interior looks awful whereas that same person probably doesn't care that they have to use a prop rod a few times a year.

My scenario doesn't even take into account the cost of R and D, paying employees, retooling a facility for different parts, shipping and transaction costs, etc.

GM made the camaro a much better car and better than our cars performance wise but look at how much more a similarly equipped car cost versus ours and how bad their sales are.

Go watch A Faster Horse on netflix and you will see how much money is a determining factor in building a car. They really go in depth with it. One of the original Mustang engineers offers great insight by saying that anyone can design a fast, good looking car but designing a fast, good looking car that the accountants can pay for, the engineers can engineer, the workers can build and the marketers can market is nearly impossible.

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