Die hard Manual guys get in here!

[gmlt1]

10 spped

The 10 speed auto is a killer in the ZL1 Camaro, and is the same trans developed primarily by Ford. Watch this video and listen to this car being in the right gear all the time, the driver is not paddle shifting, car is in track mode and doing it all by itself.

http://www.carbuzz.com/news/2016/10...he-Mustang-GT350R-s-Nurburgring-Time-7736106/

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[Ctease]

Norm, the car knows you are in a corner, it's part of the traction control and it won't let the gearbox change into a dangerous gear. The computer monitors all wheels and if it finds you are turning a corner it will act in a very sensible way.

Very interesting. Where did you read this information?

 

[bluebeastsrt]

[/COLOR][/COLOR]
The point I'm apparently failing to get across is that automated shifts in a bend disrupt ME, likely long before they would significantly disrupt the car. No matter how fast or slow I might be driving, it's still a momentary 'WTF just happened?' distraction that I - me personally - just don't want to be dealing with in the middle of a corner. In any weather. At 50% AT driving, this probably doesn't even register with you as anything unusual. At my sub-0.1% amount of AT driving it'd stick out like a sore thumb.

You're trying to associate what I've been trying to say with always driving at something like 9/10ths of whatever conditions can support. I'm telling you it's not like that at all, it's that automatic shifts in a bend really do bother me - at or even below the pace of normal traffic under identical conditions. So it's not the transmission per se, it's a matter of the way it works not meshing with the way I think, and that's still a problem. Capiche?


Norm

I got it. Your a very special boy. With very special needs. And only a manual. Will fulfill those needs. And I can respect that.

 

[Hack]

The 10 speed auto is a killer in the ZL1 Camaro, and is the same trans developed primarily by Ford. Watch this video and listen to this car being in the right gear all the time, the driver is not paddle shifting, car is in track mode and doing it all by itself.

http://www.carbuzz.com/news/2016/10...he-Mustang-GT350R-s-Nurburgring-Time-7736106/

But with Randy Pobst driving the automatic was slower around Big Willow than the manual transmission.

 

[wireeater]

"Die hard Manual guys get in here!" - Thread littered with people who drive automatics...:lol:

 

[bluebeastsrt]

"Die hard Manual guys get in here!" - Thread littered with people who drive automatics...:lol:

Correct. But I don't think the thread was intended as a manual transmission owners circle jerk. Because an opinion was asked about the 10 speed auto also. Again asking that type of question to a bunch of die hard manual guys. Is like going to the Camaro forum and asking....Which car should I buy. A Mustang or Camaro? Anyway, Ive had enough fun with this nonsense. Anyone feel like starting a catch can or CAI thread?.;)

 

[EasyBeingGreen]

Why on earth do people really need all this extra justification for one vs. the other?? :frusty:

We all know autos are faster on the track, so if you're like [MENTION=15685]bluebeastsrt[/MENTION], and you want to race the thing, you're going to get an auto... If you don't want to bother with shifting in traffic, or at all if you don't want to, you're going to get an auto...

But if you're like me, and you learned on a manual car, and you only want to buy manual cars, you'll get the manual... When I get in the car, I want to row gears until I get to where I'm going. I don't care if it's 5 minutes away or 5 hours away through traffic. It's just what I like to do, so until there aren't any manual cars left, they'll be clearly superior to me based ENTIRELY on the fact that rowing gears makes me smile, and no other justification is needed.

All this attitude back and forth is really quite pointless. Let's all get back to enjoying fast, loud cars. :cheers:

 

[Norm Peterson]

Norm, the car knows you are in a corner, it's part of the traction control and it won't let the gearbox change into a dangerous gear. The computer monitors all wheels and if it finds you are turning a corner it will act in a very sensible way.

It may not go to a dangerous gear, but going to any gear dangerous or not when I didn't tell it to go there is something that will momentarily draw my attention away. And I find that irritating at best. Perhaps 45+ years of near-exclusive MT driving with a couple of motorcycles and a few "10-speed" bicycles thrown in for good measure has led me to expect only what I actively command the vehicle's gearbox to do. I drive a bit differently than most drivers in a couple other respects as well.


On the 'safety' tangent . . . maybe there is something (or at least was). I don't think you'll find any instances of "unintended acceleration" out on the road having happened to drivers with MT cars. But there was the huge stink raised with AT-equipped Toyotas a few years back, including that fatal incident in California involving a highly experienced driver.

Sure, I admit that it's an unlikely situation, but the reality is that it has still happened. Brake priority over throttle is supposed to fix this, but I'll bet that there's still a failure path or two still not covered for.


Norm

 

[Norm Peterson]

Drive a modern performance auto. It doesn't shift until you tell it to. Even in auto mode, some cars (like Chevys high performance line) and Ferraris have such good logic that you don't need to shift them manually and they'll keep you in the right optimum gear all of the time.

That may be the optimum gear for that instant, but it isn't looking down the road (or track) for information to base a better gear choice on. On track, it's not going to know that short-shifting before the turn it doesn't know about yet would be a viable option.

AT behavior for most people is "reactive" rather than "predictive". Good enough for the way most people drive, I guess.


Norm

 

[Stuntman]

That may be the optimum gear for that instant, but it isn't looking down the road (or track) for information to base a better gear choice on. On track, it's not going to know that short-shifting before the turn it doesn't know about yet would be a viable option.

AT behavior for most people is "reactive" rather than "predictive". Good enough for the way most people drive, I guess.


Norm

You admittedly have no experience with modern autos (performance automatics or DCT) and your comments are of your decades of experience with archaic automatic transmissions. Go track a modern 10spd Camaro, Z06, Ferrari, PDK Porsche, Mercedes, etc... The ARE PREDICTIVE.

Randy Pobst who is a professional racing driver turns his record times in automatic mode, and the ZL1 set its Nurburgring time in automatic mode. The computer algorithms are amazing and know the speed, lateral G-forces, and the torque the engine is making in a given gear and RPM to select the proper gear for the speed and corner. It may not need to short shift because time isn't lost in the shift, and it knows the best gear for a given speed and cornering force to be in.

Get out from under that rock!

 

[c-rizzle]

That may be the optimum gear for that instant, but it isn't looking down the road (or track) for information to base a better gear choice on. On track, it's not going to know that short-shifting before the turn it doesn't know about yet would be a viable option.

AT behavior for most people is "reactive" rather than "predictive". Good enough for the way most people drive, I guess.


Norm

I've said it before... GOOD modern automatics, like Porsche's PDK, feel like they're reading your mind. They seem to magically know what gear to be in at all times. I assume its all some very advance logarithms, as when I put my tin foil hat on, its still reacted the same.

Seriously though, you have to drive a HIGH END car with a GOOD auto transmission. As of 2014 Ford wasn't there yet, my 2014 Mustang GT auto was not "good" enough for track duty (road course).

Audi R9, Corvette Z06, Porsche 911, Cayman, Nissan GTR etc... all cars I've driven in auto and were flawless (most of them only 3-6 laps in an Extreme Driving Experience). What's weird is a Lamborghini Gallardo that I drove, did shift a little too early mid corner, while in auto mode and scared me as the track was wet! But I found overall the Gallardo's transmission was very aggressive feeling compared to the other "super" cars that I've driven.

 

[Norm Peterson]

I didn't say I had no recent AT experience. Just not very much, and I just can't see myself ever driving off with the shifter in "D". Upshifting twice before getting across the intersection when you're first in line . . . I'm just saying 'no thanks' to that.

It's still not going to see the approaching corner before actually entering it. Perhaps there is some nuance you can do with the throttle, but like I said before I really want throttle and transmission controls kept separate.


Norm

 

[Krogen]

This thread is entertaining. Differing wants or needs is why manual and autos are sold. Easy-peasy. Myself, I >like< manuals. That's it. My GT350 is obviously a manual and I held out for a stick in my Tacoma. I suppose if I had a Model T with it's peculiar planetary gear transmission and goofy peddle-shifting, I'd tell you I liked that too.

I just want to do it myself. This applies to my life as well. I'd rather not have something done >for< me, but I'd rather just do it myself. Of course there are exceptions; like open-heart surgery . . . .

 

[Stuntman]

I didn't say I had no recent AT experience. Just not very much, and I just can't see myself ever driving off with the shifter in "D". Upshifting twice before getting across the intersection when you're first in line . . . I'm just saying 'no thanks' to that.

It's still not going to see the approaching corner before actually entering it. Perhaps there is some nuance you can do with the throttle, but like I said before I really want throttle and transmission controls kept separate.


Norm

Driving a new AT rental car recently does not count as a "modern performance automatic".

It will know there's an approaching corner because the algorithms know that when the car is braking aggressively, to downshift and keep downshifting until it's in the right gear for a given cornering speed based off of the cars deceleration GS then cornering Gs.

 

[bluebeastsrt]

I just want to do it myself. This applies to my life as well. I'd rather not have something done >for< me, but I'd rather just do it myself. Of course there are exceptions; like open-heart surgery . . . .

And sex!

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