Cooled seats not cooling

[Free Agent]

I haven't brought mine in yet because it seems pointless as there is nothing the dealer service will be able to do.

I am glad Ford Service sees this here on the site. These upper units DO NOT work properly. The answer is going to have to come from Ford on this one.

Ford Service (Deysha), Is there some sort of online or pencil and paper notice/complaint that I can fill out that does not require me taking it into the dealership for inspection? Others here on the site could do the same. All of us taking it in and nothing happening is the pinnacle of stupidity if nothing can be done. It is wasting not only our time but the time of the service technicians as well. Frankly its also a waste of gas money as well to drive 60 miles round trip to the dealer and back. Taking it into the dealer isn't where this needs to be escalated to, it needs to go higher. They don't work right and we need to pass that up the chain at Ford. Thank you and please let us know what else we can do. Taking it into the dealer accomplishes nothing as well. Just look at this thread how many have brought it in and NOT A SINGLE ONE HAS HAD IT FIXED:(

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[Free Agent]

Mine completely stopped working. At dealership now. Will let you know what the result is.

Thank you. But I can tell you the result right now. It is NOTHING. They won't fix a thing.

They don't work right and no amount of dealer service visits is EVER going to get them to work right until Ford diagnoses the issue and gets the dealers a fix or they acknowledge the units are faulty or they come out and say the upper units are not designed to cool.

Its like having a broken arm. Your arm doesn't work right and it hurts. You go into the doctor or hospital and they say, "Yep your arm is broken" and they send you home that way. Pointless to the Nth degree. We need a FIX not more diagnoses!!!

 

[GT Pony]

I haven't brought mine in yet because it seems pointless as there is nothing the dealer service will be able to do.

I am glad Ford Service sees this here on the site. These upper units DO NOT work properly. The answer is going to have to come from Ford on this one.

Ford Service (Deysha), Is there some sort of online or pencil and paper notice/complaint that I can fill out that does not require me taking it into the dealership for inspection? Others here on the site could do the same. All of us taking it in and nothing happening is the pinnacle of stupidity if nothing can be done. It is wasting not only our time but the time of the service technicians as well. Frankly its also a waste of gas money as well to drive 60 miles round trip to the dealer and back. Taking it into the dealer isn't where this needs to be escalated to, it needs to go higher. They don't work right and we need to pass that up the chain at Ford. Thank you and please let us know what else we can do. Taking it into the dealer accomplishes nothing as well. Just look at this thread how many have brought it in and NOT A SINGLE ONE HAS HAD IT FIXED:(

Exactly ... IMO, it's probably a design flaw. Unless Ford can determine that they received defective upper seat back cooling units from their supplier. Ford needs to dig deeper into this issue for the correct fix/resolution.

 

[Free Agent]

Exactly ... IMO, it's probably a design flaw. Unless Ford can determine that they received defective upper seat back cooling units from their supplier. Ford needs to dig deeper into this issue for the correct fix/resolution.

Thanks. No amount of us taking these in are going to fix the problem. The fix lies with Ford figuring out why they don't work correctly.

I would GLADLY sit down with a Ford engineer and explain the problems and let them take a look at it if they were to send one to my dealership if that would help them understand the problem. Asking us to take it into the dealership service department where they don't know how to fix it is foolish. The Ford Engineering team needs to troubleshoot this, not the dealers. Again, I'd gladly schedule an appointment at my dealership if an actual Ford representative or Ford Engineering team person were to be there. Shy of that I'm not going to bother to take it in for something I already know, the damn thing doesn't work right. :(

 

[jbailer]

Thanks. No amount of us taking these in are going to fix the problem. The fix lies with Ford figuring out why they don't work correctly.

I would GLADLY sit down with a Ford engineer and explain the problems and let them take a look at it if they were to send one to my dealership if that would help them understand the problem. Asking us to take it into the dealership service department where they don't know how to fix it is foolish. The Ford Engineering team needs to troubleshoot this, not the dealers. Again, I'd gladly schedule an appointment at my dealership if an actual Ford representative or Ford Engineering team person were to be there. Shy of that I'm not going to bother to take it in for something I already know, the damn thing doesn't work right. :(

That might be true and it might not. Ford doesn't sell cars to us, they sell them to dealers. If the dealers apply pressure to Ford to fix the problem I think we would get better response.

I certainly could be wrong and maybe Ford really cares about all of our satisfaction as individual owners (I'd love to think so). In that case filling out a form/complaint would be great!

Deysha, I sure hope what I say here doesn't belittle the support you provide. If it weren't for your support, I would really be demoralized on this issue and probably very pissed off to be honest. At least I still feel there is hope with you backing us.

 

[GT Pony]

Deysha, I sure hope what I say here doesn't belittle the support you provide. If it weren't for your support, I would really be demoralized on this issue and probably very pissed off to be honest. At least I still feel there is hope with you backing us.

Maybe she can forward the link to this thread to a few Ford Engineers so they can read first hand what we are seeing and some of the tests that we have done.

 

[Free Agent]

Maybe she can forward the link to this thread to a few Ford Engineers so they can read first hand what we are seeing and some of the tests that we have done.

Yes this right here EXACTLY!!!

I also appreciate what Deysha is doing for us. Getting in touch with a Zone representative may be what needs to be done, THEY can exert some influence on Ford I would think. At this point, it is pointless to take your car in for something that there is NO resolution to at this time. I'm glad other people are doing it, don't get me wrong, I just don't feel like wasting my time and money on a service visit that will yield NOTHING at this point. We all know how slow things get once they get passed up the chain as well. I don't foresee any resolution or fix for months. :(

At the risk of being chastised on the site, I'm thinking of starting a POLL with 3 choices. 1. Both lower and upper coolers work great. 2. Lower cooler works great, upper cooler does not work. 3. Neither lower or upper coolers work. I think that it could be beneficial to see if we are just a small representation or if everyone is experiencing it.

 

[RubyRed15]

Step up, Ford. Fix these seats.

 

[turtleboy]

117 degrees today. Cooled seats were a huge selling point for me as I have been in many other vehicles that actually cool your body down. I can drive all day with the seats on hi and AC at max and they might be slightly cooler to the touch on the bottom. As for the seat backs, when first turned on I can "feel" air being pulled away from my shoulders for about 5 seconds, then nothing. That fan on the back gets so freaking hot too!

 

[moarhorsepower]

So looks like I'm in the same boat here. Bottom of the seats blow cold air, upper portion of the seat doesn't cool. If anything it gets hotter. I paid the extra money for the cooled seats specifically so I'd be comfortable in the summer. I'm a bit disappointed but will bring it in for service soon and see what the dealership says.

 

[FordService]

I haven't brought mine in yet because it seems pointless as there is nothing the dealer service will be able to do.
I am glad Ford Service sees this here on the site. These upper units DO NOT work properly. The answer is going to have to come from Ford on this one.
Ford Service (Deysha), Is there some sort of online or pencil and paper notice/complaint that I can fill out that does not require me taking it into the dealership for inspection? Others here on the site could do the same. All of us taking it in and nothing happening is the pinnacle of stupidity if nothing can be done. It is wasting not only our time but the time of the service technicians as well. Frankly its also a waste of gas money as well to drive 60 miles round trip to the dealer and back. Taking it into the dealer isn't where this needs to be escalated to, it needs to go higher. They don't work right and we need to pass that up the chain at Ford. Thank you and please let us know what else we can do. Taking it into the dealer accomplishes nothing as well. Just look at this thread how many have brought it in and NOT A SINGLE ONE HAS HAD IT FIXED:(

I understand where you’re coming from, Free Agent. However, any concern you guys experience with your vehicle must be brought to your dealer’s attention first. Also, you’re welcome to bring it into your nearest Ford Dealer for service.

That might be true and it might not. Ford doesn't sell cars to us, they sell them to dealers. If the dealers apply pressure to Ford to fix the problem I think we would get better response.

I certainly could be wrong and maybe Ford really cares about all of our satisfaction as individual owners (I'd love to think so). In that case filling out a form/complaint would be great!

Deysha, I sure hope what I say here doesn't belittle the support you provide. If it weren't for your support, I would really be demoralized on this issue and probably very pissed off to be honest. At least I still feel there is hope with you backing us.

You’re good, jbailer!

Maybe she can forward the link to this thread to a few Ford Engineers so they can read first hand what we are seeing and some of the tests that we have done.

2 steps ahead of you already, GT Pony. ;)

So looks like I'm in the same boat here. Bottom of the seats blow cold air, upper portion of the seat doesn't cool. If anything it gets hotter. I paid the extra money for the cooled seats specifically so I'd be comfortable in the summer. I'm a bit disappointed but will bring it in for service soon and see what the dealership says.

Let me know when you make your appointment so we can escalate this, moarhorsepower.

Deysha

 

[Free Agent]

Deysha, thank you for the response and attention to this thread. I understand where you are coming from but it will be nothing but a waste of my time right now. If there is no fix solution, I don't need the dealer to tell me that, I already know it. Ford engineering or quality control is who needs to be investigating this now, not the dealer service departments. I am glad it seems you may have forwarded this higher up the chain and I hope those involved are taking a CLOSE look at the evidence we have displayed in this thread. If and when a solution will occur, I will make an appointment the very next day believe me. As I've said, I would gladly communicate with anyone from Ford in Engineering, Troubleshooting, Design or even let them look at the seats at my local Ford dealership if they would set up an appointment with me. THEY are the ones that can solve this or have the power to resolve the problem, the dealers do not at this point. Every one of us can take these cars in on a daily basis and NOTHING will be resolved at this point. Again, please don't get me wrong, I truly appreciate your help. The thing is we need MORE HELP FROM FORD HIGHER UPS.

It should be blatantly obvious to anyone at this point that this issue/problem needs to be "escalated" above what the dealer service department can provide. Please "escalate".

 

[jbailer]

Free Agent, I agree with you all except not taking it to the dealer. You're absolutely correct that the dealer cannot fix the problem. This is clearly a Ford Engineering issue and can only be fixed by Ford. When I was at the dealer to look at my seats, the Service Technician pulled in a new car off the lot to show me it worked exactly the same. I can't say this is how they operate but from my experience (and I'm old) many manufacturers will go by sampling or number of problems reported to determine the resolution track for a product issue. Since the authorized dealers are Fords customers, not us, they are the ones that need to provide that feedback to Ford. Typically, the more occurrences or reports of an issue, the higher the priority it receives. If very few people take their cars into the dealer to report the issue or complain about it, Ford may just take note of it and improve it in a future model and do nothing to fix ours.

The squeaky wheel gets the grease, the crying baby gets the milk, etc. etc.

Deysha, Free Agent brings up a very good point though, can you confirm that this issue has been escalated? Can you tell us if Ford recognizes the problem? Is there work to correct the problem? Is there a form (or on-line preferably) that people can fill out in lieu of taking the car to the dealer?

Thanks,
Joe

 

[Droid_Junky]

Deysha has assigned me a case number. I received a call this morning to discuss it but I was at work. I returned the call but got voicemail so I have yet to talk to anyone about it.

While it was on my mind I started to do a little more searching and found this facebook post by Ford that explains the features. It obviously wasn't specific to our car becuase the pictures show ducts to allow proper airflow. It even talks about how the fan can overheat if airflow is restricted.


https://www.facebook.com/notes/fordpartscom/fordpartscom-parts-tip-stay-cool-know-about-climate-controlled-seats/223295744373477

FordParts.com Parts Tip: stay cool: know about climate controlled seats
July 22, 2011 at 12:11pm

Climate controlled seats have become an option of choice on high-end vehicles over the past few years. Vehicles equipped with these systems are now coming out from under the umbrella of manufacturer warranties and they represent a potential new profit stream for aftermarket repair facilities.
As with all new types of automotive systems, the first step in accurate diagnosis and service is to understand how these seats work. Let’s look at how Ford and Lincoln-Mercury climate controlled seats operate.

There is a thermo-electric device (TED) located within each front seat cushion and backrest.
The TED uses a ''Peltier'' circuit of P-type and N-type semiconductors connected in series using copper electrical conductors. Sandwiched between the semiconductors are insulating ceramic plates.
When current is applied to the TED, one side releases energy as heat, while the opposite side absorbs energy and gets cold.

By reversing the current flow, the hot and cold sides reverse.
The seat temperature is monitored and adjusted by a dual climate control module (DSCM).
Ford uses three different variations of these systems, so you will have to inspect the vehicle in order to identify its exact nomenclature.

During normal operation:
Cabin air is drawn through the seat fan motor and distributed to each of the TED modules located in the seat cushion and backrest.
The TEDs then heat or cool the air.
The air is then directed into the foam pad surface.
Channels in the surface of the foam pad are used to distribute the air along the surface of the seat.

Once the system is activated, the DCSM controls the heating/cooling modes and the fan motor speed based on the control switch settings.
What steps can we take if a customer comes in with a climate controlled seat that’s not heating or cooling? Look for the following:
Does the seat indicator light on the Climate Controlled Seat Panel light up? If not, look for an issue in the power system.
Does the Message Center in the instrument panel indicate a climate control seat fault? If so, use a scan tool to retrieve codes from the DSCM.
Are the blower motors for each seat working?
In fact, blower motor issues are the most common source of climate controlled seat concerns. And in many cases the culprit is the filter on the motors.

Of course the filter is beneath the seat, so the napkins from the fast food chain that get kicked under the seat may get sucked into it. And if the vehicle owner is a pet lover, animal hair will accumulate there. So a filter inspection should be your first step.

Be aware that a restriction of airflow to the TED, may cause it to overheat. This will likely result in DTCs, and cause the seat to enter a recovery mode that disables the TED but runs the blower motor to cool it down. Once the airflow restriction is removed, the seat will resume normal operation.
Although there are other potential faults that can affect the operation of these seats, air filter concerns are by far the most common. Service publications can help when diagnosing individual component or circuit faults, and be aware that when servicing these systems you will also have to interact with the supplemental restraint system.

Climate controlled seat technology varies between car manufactures, but as with all vehicle systems they will require service. Your understanding of these seats, in combination with your automotive service skills can make these seats a new source of profit!
Ford Lincoln Mercury Climate Controlled SeatingFord Lincoln Mercury Climate Controlled Seating
Ford Lincoln Mercury Climate Controlled SeatingFord Lincoln Mercury Climate Controlled Seating
Ford Lincoln Mercury Climate Controlled Seating

 

[FeedtheNeed]

So, on a hunch I tried something out today and I'd like to see if anybody else has a similar experience.

While the seat cooler had been running for about 15-20 minutes I put my hand on the perforated section on the back of the seat and it was noticeably cool to the touch. I could feel very slight cool airflow.

If I kept my hand there, it warmed to body temperature pretty quick.

I took a temp reading when I got home and it read 79/80 degrees while the cooler was running.

When I turned the cooler off, I watched the temp rise over a matter of about 20-30 seconds to 90 degrees (I stopped reading the temp at this point, it may have gotten higher). The seat that did not have cooling running was 90 degrees.

If others can reproduce this, it is pretty solid evidence that:
1. Our seats are supposed to actively cool the back
2. Something is not configured properly (reversed?)

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