Cooled seats not cooling

[Darko66]

The way these things are supposed to work is that there are channels formed into one of the seat cushions that along with the other layers delivers the air across the whole seat (see attached illustration). So in theory it should cover the whole perforated area of the seat despite where the vent is. It's where the air first leaves the distribution channels that it would be strongest I imagine. Amerigon was bought by Gentherm – it's their technology not Ford's.

I think it might be the channels you can see in the photo Droid Junky took inside the back of the seat. The lines in the foam running vertically.

I reread that other forum. The poster with the wrong cushion was referring to the bottom seat. The one who was getting the seat backs replaced was awaiting the new backs that were due in early June.

Someone was wondering what other vehicles might use the same blower units. I think the 2016 Fusion Titanium model uses the same ones. Same part numbers and cost as the Mustang's. The cooled seats are a $395 option and not part of a package, so might not be common on them.

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[GT Pony]

^^^ I'm not so sure the Amerigon illustration above is representative of the Mustangs seats. The Amerigon illustration says "Cooled or Heated Air Exits to Seat Cushion". I believe the heaters in the Mustang's seats are not associated with the fan unit, but are rather resistive heating elements in the seats, similar to an electric blanket. I tested the heating part of the seats and they work great ... both bottom and back gets nice and warm on the high setting.

If the fans don't run with the seats set to heat mode, then the heat if coming from a different system than the units the fans are located in. Put an ear up to the seat area where the fan air exits, and you can easily hear the fans running while in cooling mode. I haven't tested to see if the fans run or not in heat mode, but my guess is they do not. The "waste air" from the cooler in the seat back doesn't seem to "exit the seat" as illustrated above, but rather exits inside the seat back and is trapped.

 

[GT Pony]

Here's an interesting data point. I was out on a cruise today with the girl friend - outside temp was ~85 F. I had the cabin AC on blowing through dash and feet vent. After the interior cooled down a bit (windows up), both seats were set to full cooling. We could both feel cool air coming out the seat backs where the main fan exits the air through the leather. First time I've ever felt it working where you could definitely feel it.

But, after running them about 15 minutes it seemed the cool air basically stopped. Probably because the Peltier unit couldn't reject it's waste heat well enough and over heated, thereby shutting down the cooled side.

 

[GT Pony]

I don't feel any airflow on the seat back in either mode and all I feel on the backside of the seat is heat radiating from right at the top of the pocket.

That's right where the Peltier unit is trying to reject it's waste heat when it's trying to cool.

 

[Darko66]

Sorry, wasn't clear what I meant about the heat on the back. I meant that I don't feel any air being forced out the back by the fan, but I guess no one else does either.

The fans do appear to run when the heated are used. They don't come on right away, there's a few second pause. Not sure if they stay on though. I was leaning toward thinking the heating was done by the TED since the fans run and it seems odd that they'd use 2 systems. But the fact that they heat so well goes against that. I did a little bit of research and it seems the fans might run even if it's using a heat pad. Perhaps the seats have both and they complement each other. It's got to be activating the TED if I have the same hot spot when heating as I do when cooling, right?

 

[Droid_Junky]

So this is contrary to what I heard before. Someone, including Ford was saying the seat back only cooled at the lumbar region. Thank you very much for this. Will be good info when I go to the dealer. I wonder if anyone can say their seat cools well there?

If they are suppose to only cool the lumbar section then they are installed in the wrong location. The lumbar is just below the large red box.

 

[Droid_Junky]

Sorry, wasn't clear what I meant about the heat on the back. I meant that I don't feel any air being forced out the back by the fan, but I guess no one else does either.

The fans do appear to run when the heated are used. They don't come on right away, there's a few second pause. Not sure if they stay on though. I was leaning toward thinking the heating was done by the TED since the fans run and it seems odd that they'd use 2 systems. But the fact that they heat so well goes against that. I did a little bit of research and it seems the fans might run even if it's using a heat pad. Perhaps the seats have both and they complement each other. It's got to be activating the TED if I have the same hot spot when heating as I do when cooling, right?

The air does seem to be trapped. If there is any escaping the back, it can't be felt.

I did feel the fan kick on when the heat is selected but it was only low when I tested. Switching it back to cool and you can feel it kick up to that third speed. I could be wrong about there being two different systems. If it's all from the same unit then it works much better with heat. The fact that the fan is on low and it almost immediately warns the seat makes me think there is something more going on when heat is selected.

 

[Free Agent]

The way these things are supposed to work is that there are channels formed into one of the seat cushions that along with the other layers delivers the air across the whole seat (see attached illustration). So in theory it should cover the whole perforated area of the seat despite where the vent is. It's where the air first leaves the distribution channels that it would be strongest I imagine. Amerigon was bought by Gentherm – it's their technology not Ford's.

I think it might be the channels you can see in the photo Droid Junky took inside the back of the seat. The lines in the foam running vertically.

I reread that other forum. The poster with the wrong cushion was referring to the bottom seat. The one who was getting the seat backs replaced was awaiting the new backs that were due in early June.

Someone was wondering what other vehicles might use the same blower units. I think the 2016 Fusion Titanium model uses the same ones. Same part numbers and cost as the Mustang's. The cooled seats are a $395 option and not part of a package, so might not be common on them.

Thanks for posting up the pic.

I have to laugh when it says "Waste air exits seat." Like Hell it does. It vents right into the same area that it is trying to cool, especially so in the seat back.

 

[Tony Alonso]

But, after running them about 15 minutes it seemed the cool air basically stopped. Probably because the Peltier unit couldn't reject it's waste heat well enough and over heated, thereby shutting down the cooled side.

I suspect this is why I have not experienced what folks are describing here. I tend to use the cool function for only about 5-7 minutes. After that, I turn them off because the cooling effect has worked enough for me. I also do this with the heat function.

Thanks to all you doing diagnosis!

 

[Droid_Junky]

I suspect that as summer warms up there will be others complaining. My car temp was 93 degrees after work!

I looked at it for a few minutes today and discovered something else. Between the back of the seat and a thin fabric layer there is a sheet of plastic. At the top of the plastic there are two rows of holes across the entire top. When I first opened the flap that plastic slid out a ways. At the time I didn't pull it all the way out. I noticed today that when I pushed it all the way up it sits right at the same level as the hot vent. You should be able to feel the holes just above the seat pocket.

 

[Free Agent]

The upper seat unit just doesn't work period. They are pointless. They make the seat warmer, not cooler. You are better leaving them off if you want your back cooler.

Another 15 minute cruise to test them out. 85 degrees outside but NO sun, cloud cover so no the seats aren't absorbing light. Car has been sitting in the 85 degree air of the garage all day. Hasn't run in 24 hours.

Ran both coolers at max with the AC set to bi-level so there is some air going on the seats and some under the seats. Once again both seat bottoms start to cool after about 1 minute, they get nice and cool after about 5 minutes. Upper "coolers" do NOTHING the entire 15 minute time. Well nothing isn't the word, they make the seats warmer, not cooler. No one sitting in the passenger seat and the side bolsters are significantly cooler than the front of the seat backs that should be "cooled". This is with the air blowing on the seat somewhat from the bi level setting on the AC. Of course the back of the upper seats is roasting hot. It would be a good place to put your sandwich if you want it warmed up on your cross town trip. I actually turned them off and drove for another 5 minutes and the passenger side front of the top seat started to cool down with the seat coolers OFF. And yes my back never did feel any cooling for the entire trip.

The upper seat units are useless for cooling, I'd love to see someone who says they work actually use the laser IR thermometer to prove it. I don't believe any of them work and I won't believe it until someone shows some proof with the IR thermometer. Guess I will just have to enjoy my butt cooler and back warmer. :(

With that said, I'm going to try to find something to wedge/prop inside the map pockets to keep them opened up to the air in the cabin in an attempt to let the units vent the heat they make and maybe that will help but I doubt it. The design is crap and the upper ones just don't work. Again I'd love to see someone post up some IR thermometer readings of a seat that actually does cool the upper part of the seat.

 

[Free Agent]

I suspect that as summer warms up there will be others complaining. My car temp was 93 degrees after work!

I looked at it for a few minutes today and discovered something else. Between the back of the seat and a thin fabric layer there is a sheet of plastic. At the top of the plastic there are two rows of holes across the entire top. When I first opened the flap that plastic slid out a ways. At the time I didn't pull it all the way out. I noticed today that when I pushed it all the way up it sits right at the same level as the hot vent. You should be able to feel the holes just above the seat pocket.

Are we looking forwards or backwards in this picture?

Can you pull this all the way out?

 

[GT Pony]

The
The upper seat units are useless for cooling, I'd love to see someone who says they work actually use the laser IR thermometer to prove it. I don't believe any of them work and I won't believe it until someone shows some proof with the IR thermometer. Guess I will just have to enjoy my butt cooler and back warmer. :(

If you look at my Post #198 I actually did experience them cooling for about 15 minutes. The backs were definitely working for a short time until they couldn't keep up and reject the waste heat off the hot side.

As my other testing showed with the IR thermometer with nobody in the seat, I could never see the backs get cool, but for some reason when I tested it while driving the car with the AC on (bi-level), the backs definitely worked for a short time. Both me and the passenger both felt it for sure. Having the AC on in bi-level must have some kind of effect on the unit in the seat back ... probably provides some cooled air so they start out working at least.

I'm sticking with the theory that the unit in the back just can't reject it's waste heat, and therefore doesn't work and even warms things up back there and turns into a thermal runaway situation.

What the designer needed to do it use a stronger fan, and divert some of it's airflow through the hot side of the Peltier unit and exhaust the waste heat down a duct to underneath the seat. I'm still betting that if the unit can get rid of it's waste heat that it will cool like the bottom cushion unit cools.

 

[Droid_Junky]

Are we looking forwards or backwards in this picture?

Can you pull this all the way out?

Looking forward at the back of the seat. It will come all the way out.

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[jbailer]

I looked at it for a few minutes today and discovered something else. Between the back of the seat and a thin fabric layer there is a sheet of plastic. At the top of the plastic there are two rows of holes across the entire top. When I first opened the flap that plastic slid out a ways. At the time I didn't pull it all the way out. I noticed today that when I pushed it all the way up it sits right at the same level as the hot vent. You should be able to feel the holes just above the seat pocket.

Any idea what the plastic is for? Do you think those holes are supposed to be where the heat leaves the seat and maybe the plastic was blocking it?

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