Another GT Brake Upgrade Story

[Firsttexan]

Get the best pads and use the money for lightweight forged wheels. I like the Baer discs. $1500 I think.

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[larr12]

Check Rockauto.com

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/ford,2020,mustang,5.0l+v8,3444743,brake+&+wheel+hub

 

[Stage_3]

I have been toying with the idea of going with the GT350R brake kit though, honestly, it would wind up being the most irresponsible purchase I ever made given that the car may never see the tract. The forces pushing me towards this kit are:

1) The PP and Bullitt brake kits (same brakes/different colors) add a good amount of weight.
2) I have not seen any literature as to differential weight of the GT350R set-up.
3) The GT350 kit comes with beefier replacement half-shafts which is attractive given that I currently have 670HP at the crank and will be raising this, and will soon be putting on very grippy tires. This somewhat offsets the high cost of the brakes, themselves
3) I am not comfortable with other big brake kits such as from Baer and Wildwood, both for reasons of cost and reputation, and these kits seem to be far less complete than those offered by Ford Performance
4) I am not about flash (I would actually get the black caliper version of the GT350 kit) but, at the same time, I really do not like the look of the stock GT calipers and rotors, and, besides, the stock rotor design is heavy and poor at dissipating heat.
5) I am not sure about PowerStop-like solutions due to them not publishing their weight specs and uncertainty as to their durability and performance.
6) I do not like the look of hand painting the existing calipers
7) It makes no sense to me to have the exiting calipers powder coated; I would rather put that money toward the GT350R kit.

I just cannot bring myself to pull the trigger on a $4K brake modification....but I had no problem putting out that kind of money for the supercharger.....

Great post!!!
A lot of points are how I feel as well.

I too, like you will NEVER see track time, but I do want that kit. Been wanting it for a while now.
4k is a lot of cake, but once my car is paid off this October, (hopefully sooner), I do want to purchase that kit. Then, I'll have to buy new wheels/tires as well, which is part of the plan anyways. (That's probably 9k right there on top of the 4k. LOL) We'll see how it goes. It's a dream right now.

There is someone with a beautiful black '21 Mach 1 with this kit on his car and it looks amazing!

 

[kz]

I have been toying with the idea of going with the GT350R brake kit though, honestly, it would wind up being the most irresponsible purchase I ever made given that the car may never see the tract.

Then what is the reason you want to upgrade them (nothing on that list was the actual reason). Ask yourself what is wrong with your current brakes that you want improve ?
From your post it looks like the look - which is fine - then there is not a substantial look difference between GT and GT350 Brembos. What you also need to account for is possibly new wheels for either (especially for GT350 ones).

Given the use, you've wrote about, you will spend a whole lot of money and add some weight for something you will not benefit from during driving. Replace fronts with 6 piston Brembos, get a rotors that you like (Baers / Girodisc / Steeda) and call it a day.

 

[Bobby57]

I am a firm believer of buying a car for what I am going to use it for, you said you are not going to do and track days I assume you mean HPDE/Open track days on a road course. The brakes on the GT will bring you to a stop on any drag strip or street situation you might encounter. I had a 2012 Mustang with the Brembo brakes package because I was doing track days but the standard brakes on any GT are IMO just as good as the 2012 Brembo brakes. The only difference in track brakes and street brakes is that track brakes can handle multiple hard braking without overheating. Probably half the guys going for the performance packages will never see any track time but the will have track cred at the car shows. My 2021 will never see any track days but I still like have the Coyote power even though I am pushing 80.

My subjective experience of my brakes is that they have insufficient bite and that their application is not linear to pedal actuation. They are definitely inferior to the brakes on my previous cars (BMWs and Porsches), and their overall feel is dissatisfying relative to other aspects of the car which I have modified, namely the suspension, chassis and power.

When taking turns the car suspension and my Pilot Sport tires are holding the car in there very nicely, and the huge Roush Phase 1 SC torque is great for pulling out....but the braking is very lackluster approaching the the turn --- they are taking away from the enjoyment.

There might be cost-effective remedies such as replacing the pads, rotors and lines. Rotor and fluid grade replacement could also address concerns of heat dissipation. I already have air deflectors on the Steeda tension links.

For esthetics, I could powder coat the existing calipers which I find as having a very unattractive industrial look. I have a black car and would go with black powder coating, as I prefer being more low-key.

Alternatively, I could spend more money and buy a kit that provides all the above. On this I would rule out the Performance Pack Kit (and the Bullitt Kit which is the identical set of components with red-painted calipers). I understand that the 6 piston calipers do provide better braking feel/control but the rotors are heavy and not great at heat dissipation and, as you point out, the overall stopping power is not appreciably greater.

Which takes us to the GT350 brakes, which are available in low-key black, with the kit including more robust half-shafts, which is attractive given the high torque I am putting out, and given that I am looking to spring for a second set of wheels which I would mount with soft compound tires.

Have you ever experienced the braking of the GT350, or have you seen comparative metrics of the 60-0 of same model-year base GT and GT350?

 

[EFI]

There might be cost-effective remedies such as replacing the pads, rotors and lines. Rotor and fluid grade replacement could also address concerns of heat dissipation. I already have air deflectors on the Steeda tension links.

The problem is with the base inverted rotors. They don't cool well due to their design, and unfortunately the air deflectors won't do anything unless you get proper designed rotors which means doing the PP or GT350 upgrade.

 

[shogun32]

but the braking is very lackluster approaching the the turn

I HATE grabby brakes. the forces should mount quickly as temps rise but that initial touch of pad to rotor should be smooth. I suspect a new set of rotors and pads and BROKEN IN PROPERLY will satisfy your needs. It's not like you're bombing into corner entry at a buck 10 anyhow. and doing it over and over and over mere 15 seconds apart.

The problem is with the base inverted rotors.

I believe Baer and a couple other outfits have rotors with the CORRECT construction.

I know it's probably stupid but what about just flipping the rotors inside out? you'll need a spacer to get the offset right but it might work.

 

[Bobby57]

The problem is with the base inverted rotors. They don't cool well due to their design, and unfortunately the air deflectors won't do anything unless you get proper designed rotors which means doing the PP or GT350 upgrade.

I got the deflectors in preparation of the planed brake system overhaul, which I am now thinking through

 

[Bobby57]

Then what is the reason you want to upgrade them (nothing on that list was the actual reason). Ask yourself what is wrong with your current brakes that you want improve ?
From your post it looks like the look - which is fine - then there is not a substantial look difference between GT and GT350 Brembos. What you also need to account for is possibly new wheels for either (especially for GT350 ones).

Given the use, you've wrote about, you will spend a whole lot of money and add some weight for something you will not benefit from during driving. Replace fronts with 6 piston Brembos, get a rotors that you like (Baers / Girodisc / Steeda) and call it a day.

I have wheels that will clear the GT350R brakes. When you say "6 piston Brembos do you mean to buy Brembo GT calipers as a separate purchase? .....those are really expensive

 

[shogun32]

I have wheels that will clear the GT350R brakes. When you say "6 piston Brembos do you mean to buy Brembo GT calipers as a separate purchase? .....those are really expensive

6-pot/piston Brembo == PP1 brakes

 

[Bobby57]

I HATE grabby brakes. the forces should mount quickly as temps rise but that initial touch of pad to rotor should be smooth. I suspect a new set of rotors and pads and BROKEN IN PROPERLY will satisfy your needs. It's not like you're bombing into corner entry at a buck 10 anyhow. and doing it over and over and over mere 15 seconds apart.


I believe Baer and a couple other outfits have rotors with the CORRECT construction.

I know it's probably stupid but what about just flipping the rotors inside out? you'll need a spacer to get the offset right but it might work.

I need to talk to someone who has extensive experience with both the GT350 and base GT to comment on their subjective experience of the two brake set-ups, and I would like to see metrics of the 60-0 for the two cars.

I get what you say that grabby brakes can be annoying.

 

[Bobby57]

6-pot/piston Brembo == PP1 brakes

Got you.

 

[Andy13186]

I would just upgrade your current rotors to 2 piece. Or go with a GT PP1 calipers and get 2 piece rotors. There are benefits in all aspects of performance for reducing rotating mass. Save the money and get lightweight wheels and lighter brakes for your current setup, or pp1 brakes with 2 piece rotors imo. Having massive heavy brakes that you dont need will just make your car slower, less effecient, handle worse, etc and you will also limit your wheel choices if you want to get a drag racing wheel setup.

 

[BluePonyGT]

There should be at least one voice on here that sides with getting the kit, but I should list out the pros and cons and why I chose to go with it.

I spent a lot of time researching what to do with this brake system on the GT for two reasons: 1.) I will be putting this car on the track; 2.) I don't have a PP option nor is it a bullit by default. So I also had an upgrade in my future. I hate the inverted hat design of the default GT rotors. The calipers are fine, but they're heavy for what they do anyway considering they're only 4 piston. The rotors are stout for daily driving and having fun every once in a while, but I've heard some really bad stories about what happens to these OEM brakes on the track.

Here's a good channel that I caught while digging around for info:



I thought that was interesting, and they dive into how bad some of these designs are. They also provide some info on what other brake options are out there. However, since this isn't a race car I'm building, I want to have fun on the track, and I want it to look cool I chose a different path. Still good info.

First the pros (as I see them):

* Half shafts are included. They're much stouter than the stock ones. Since I've had mine out of the car before I know to get a bearing/seal kit when installing the new ones just for good measure from ford performance.
* It comes with the e-brake shoes/assembly and new cables - a big upgrade to the rear brakes. You're no longer using the rear caliper as the e-brake.
* To make everything above tie together it comes with new rear aluminum knuckles with the spherical bushings already installed. So if anyone here has installed their own toe brackets they'll agree with me - removing/installing these bushings is a HUGE pain.
* Calipers are stunning. I opted for the black kit vs. the red. I wanted something different.
* Calipers, pads and rotors all go together really well.
* Hardware is included for everything, and I mean EVERYTHING. The only thing I see missing is the bearing/seal kit I mentioned earlier for the half-shafts, and the brake fluid you'll need to replace what gets lost.
* Documentation is really good. I can follow them easily and it's all available through the ford performance website. I also have contacts I can call and KNOW they're going to answer and care about what I'm asking. That's a huge plus for me.

Cons as I see them:

* Lots and lots and lots of work - esp. on the rears. If you have a lift and a shop - great. You can probably get this done during a long weekend. If you're like me and you have a driveway, jack stands, etc. It's going to take longer. I'm still working on that angle to be honest.
* Definitely the weight. It's going to be heavier than the original brakes by far. The rotors are massive and they're NOT light. When this kit first showed up it was on a box stapled to a wood pallet. I had to disassemble the shipment to move the boxes into storage. Carrying both front rotors together was a bit sketchy up and down the steps. This is a heavy kit.
* The rotors are NOT two-piece. This means if you wear these out, and can't have them turned you'll be buying another set of rotors. Those are going to be expensive. So two-piece units from Steeda or someone else (perhaps carbon fiber???) may be in your future depending on how much track you intend to run.
* They're built for a 19" rim but I'm finding out that I may have to run a different rim than the Project6grs that I have now. I won't know for sure until I mock up the fronts with the new rotor/caliper. I'm really hoping not since I bought these rims with this brake system in mind in the first place, but that remains to be seen. From what I've heard it may boil down to the wheel weights and fitting a sheet of paper between the caliper and the wheel.
* The price obviously

Why the hell did I do this?:

* I want bullet proof brakes and didn't want to design my own kit. That's obviously something that others have done, and that's great, but I didn't want to experiment or try to collect a bunch of components and then have issues making them work together.
* I really wanted an upgrade to the short shafts and the e-brake system. This has both.
* I also have ARP studded hubs that I'm putting on at the same time, so I'm really excited how all of this is going to look together.
* I'm in a car club, so I get some options when it comes to buying a kit like this wholesale and I had to wait for other orders to make it more cost effective. That was no small feat considering the market we're in right now, inflation, etc. I chose to do this before the kit got any more pricy and/or ford performance no longer offered it. So I had some waiting to do.
* I get the chance to document this and share it with the club in case others choose to do something similar. It may drive business to the custom shop we work with.
* I get to exploit the car show angle and yack with others about what I did and why. That's always fun.
* I get to track the car and not be terrified I won't be able to control myself on downhill corners.

So it's an individual choice coupled with what others have said: what do you plan on doing with the car? I'm being really candid here about why I'm doing this and what I see as the pros/cons, so folks probably won't agree with me, but that's alright by me. I bought this for myself as a Christmas present after a tough couple of years with work and the pandemic, and once I took those calipers out of the box - OMG. They're awesome so I'm not sad at all.

 

[I Bleed Ford Blue]

The PP1/PP2/bullitt/mach 1 brakes are six pot brembos but bolt on the spindle just like the standard 4 pot mustang GT brakes and use a larger 15" rotor. You can buy the complete front kit for 1K new from LMR https://lmr.com/item/LRS-32120K/mustang-ford-oe-6-piston-brake-kit-2015-2020
If you don't want basic matte black they also have the bullitt kit in red for $1150 and the mach 1 kit in orange for $1300.

For another 1K you can get baer eradispeed+ 2 piece rotors for the front that are way better than stock. https://www.americanmuscle.com/baer-eradispeed-plus-front-rotors-pp-1517.html

And matching rears for $700 https://www.americanmuscle.com/baer-eradispeed-plus-rear-rotors-pp-1516gt.html

And for $362 you can get the GT 350 axles that come in the ford kit. https://www.americanmuscle.com/ford-performance-gt350-half-shaft-kit-15117.html

So for a little over 3K you can get a brake setup that will be 95% of what the GT350 kit will do and you can piece meal it vs. dropping 4K all at once.

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