Another blown ecoboost Engine

[highvoltage]

If you cant go wot from 2500-3000 rpms. There is a major problem. That is not a low rpm at all.

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[MixTape]

Sorry to hear about the issues, definitely makes me want to wait to do any huge mods. For now all I've done is a catback exhaust from Ford Racing (the quad-tip GT350 exhaust on the EcoBoost is amazing), and an RTR grill which required removing the grill shutters. My guess is neither one of those things will cause any issues, and the rest of my mods are replacing basically every bulb with an LED (except for the front turn signals because the combo of the switchbacks and LED side markers up front gave me flickering issues).

 

[Santos_S550]

so all these issues are happening on ecoboost with Manuel transmission ??

 

[fordracerguy]

for those with Ecoboost, Automatic transmission, if you are moving at 60-65mph and WOT, what gear / RPM does it change to ? And how much boost?

I have a stock (staying that way) automatic EB PP. At 65 MPH I am running 2000 rpms. Flooring it shoots up to around 4200-4500. I live in SoCal so my eyes couldn't stay on the dash long - don't know boost or gear.

 

[stang77]

I have a stock (staying that way) automatic EB PP. At 65 MPH I am running 2000 rpms. Flooring it shoots up to around 4200-4500. I live in SoCal so my eyes couldn't stay on the dash long - don't know boost or gear.

I'm automatic as well. I still make it a point not to punch it when I am in 5th or 6th gear though.

 

[DIBS550]

I have a stock (staying that way) automatic EB PP. At 65 MPH I am running 2000 rpms. Flooring it shoots up to around 4200-4500. I live in SoCal so my eyes couldn't stay on the dash long - don't know boost or gear.

I hate that the EB auto doesn't show what gear you are in unless you are using the paddles. Love that the Cobb programmer changes that. My EB shows what gear I'm in now even if I'm not using the paddle shifters.

 

[fordracerguy]

I'm automatic as well. I still make it a point not to punch it when I am in 5th or 6th gear though.

I honestly don't think there is an issue punching an automatic in 5th or 6th. It instantaneously downshifts for you. In fact, if I give my car even 1/4 throttle, it changes gears. Of course I am no expert...

 

[Kjewer1]

"Punching it" isn't the problem, and shows a continued misunderstanding of what LSPI is.

If you punch it, the trans will downshift, which is good. It's when you're running part throttle and the turbo builds a bunch of boost and it doesn't downshift that you can get into the high load/low rpm area where LSPI happens. If you're not watching the boost gauge you probably won't even realize this is happening. The ECU could simply be programmed to downshift before boost gets high enough to do damage. Mine is. But the OEMs purposely operate in this area to meet fuel economy requirements imposed by your government.

It's also worth repeating that you can operate in the LSPI danger zone 10,000 times and never experience it. It's completely random, and not yet fully understood by the OEMs, even though they've been researching it for a long time.

The only way to avoid it is to avoid operation at low speed and high BMEP, which reduces fuel economy. You can limit boost at low rpm, or force an earlier shift to raise engine rpm but keep the boost. The latter is what I prefer. The car feels much better as well. Again, the OEMs can't do it, but we tuners can. Odd that most people are afraid of a tune blowing the engine or causing warranty issues, but in the end it might the the tune that prevents the issues in the first place.

Only modern boosted GDI engines have a problem with this. Older turbo engines could get pre-ignition/knock for several reasons, but they couldn't generate the BMEP required at a low enough RPM to produce LSPI specifically. Most of those cars weren't making shit for boost until 3k rpm. This is why I've said in the past that larger turbos reduce the risk of LSPI, same deal.

For the sake of doing some simple calculations to get in the ballpark, assuming a minimum BMEP of 14 bar to be at risk of LSPI (a big assumption), you'd have to make ~190 ft lbs at our displacement. Older turbo engines (at the same displacement) weren't capable of achieving this in the 1500-2500 rpm range.

To put it another way, at 14 bar BMEP, or 190 ft lbs, as little as 5 psi boost can put you there. That's not much. You'll easily make that just pulling a moderate hill on the highway. "Punching it" is not the issue, there is nothing the driver should be expected to do differently.

Two other things worth noting: Massive BMEP but at higher RPM isn't an issue (my Talon is probably around 60-70 bar), and diesels operate at low speed and high BMEP all the time with no issues for obvious reasons. LSPI is indeed a relatively new thing.


Now, none of this is to say that you should be worried about LSPI. You should however know what it is, IMO. The vast majority of us will never experience it. 150 posts in this thread and I don't think anyone is really that interested in what it actually is, so I'm sure I've wasted my time, but it could make for an interesting discussion. I'm sure I've posted all of this before in other threads.

 

[JStang15]

I hate that the EB auto doesn't show what gear you are in unless you are using the paddles. Love that the Cobb programmer changes that. My EB shows what gear I'm in now even if I'm not using the paddle shifters.

This. It's awesome being able to see what gear you're in all the time. Should be that way from the factory in my opinion.

 

[JamesinLittleSilver]

Now, none of this is to say that you should be worried about LSPI. You should however know what it is, IMO. The vast majority of us will never experience it. 150 posts in this thread and I don't think anyone is really that interested in what it actually is, so I'm sure I've wasted my time, but it could make for an interesting discussion. I'm sure I've posted all of this before in other threads.

Not true thanks for posting. Good info.

 

[paul123]

... The ECU could simply be programmed to downshift before boost gets high enough to do damage. Mine is. But the OEMs purposely operate in this area to meet fuel economy requirements imposed by your government.

probably naive of me to assume that factory tunes are the safest. Why would car makers allow fuel economy requirements to trump the safest factory engine tune? Every time they have to warranty an engine, they are taking a hit, both financial and customer satisfaction.

 

[Asharus]

subaru factory tunes on the WRX from 2010 or so on have been tuned to run lean to meet EPA emissions standards, and it was widely known to have a lean condition and blow ringlands because of it

 

[Kjewer1]

The hit they take on warranty work for less than 1% of engines is far less than the hit they take if they can't meet federal mandates. It's rolled into the cost of doing business.

The majority of cars will eventually be GTDI, so I'm sure they will figure it out going forward, and improve on the efficiency as well.

 

[Joe_Stang]

subaru factory tunes on the WRX from 2010 or so on have been tuned to run lean to meet EPA emissions standards, and it was widely known to have a lean condition and blow ringlands because of it

^this, I've known many of Subaru owners that blew there motors stock and modified. That platform probably has the most blown engines to this present day lol

 

[Spoolin]

^this, I've known many of Subaru owners that blew there motors stock and modified. That platform probably has the most blown engines to this present day lol

Sooo true... I tease the subaru guys all the time and they still try to say those EJ's are "reliable" I ihonestly dont understand why the resale on wrxs are so damn high. drove the last 2 gens and wasnt that impressed. Felt like i was in a corolla with a turbo literally (no sports car feel).

On to the blown motor deal. Threads like this are posted on every forum for every car ever made. Only way to truly judge reliability is to wait about 3 years and see where the platform sits. I've always said a properly tuned, properly cared for car will be the most reliable if treated right.

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