ADM Hell! Ford!!!!

[Hells Fury]

if its fair for dealers then it should be fair in all markets and industries. remove all price gouging laws and allow the people with the deepest pockets to set the prices. if your for a free market then you can't pick and choose where it is and isn't ok, allow a total free for all.

Only seems to be free market when its convenient. It is an interesting thought……

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[Thomas]

I’m assuming you saw the article today about paying over MSRP. In 2019 0.2% of car sold over MSRP. Last year 80% were sold over MSRP. That tells me the dealers are taking advantage. Go buy your card over MSRP my friend.

i’m not saying you didn’t but that’s my point. For a $100,000 car you don’t finance. I would buy it out right with cash.

I financed it because I got an interest rate so low it made the cost less than some ppf on the hood. The sales tax is the brutal part, far greater than the interest rate. Yes you can play games with LLCs and registering but that’s essentially tax evasion. The one saving grace in Washington is that you can deduct trade in off the sales price and pay tax on the difference. Makes evaluating trade-in vs. private sale more interesting. They also tack on vehicle specific adders to the sales tax.

That being said, I can also pay it off in a year if needed.

 

[dethmaShine]

if its fair for dealers then it should be fair in all markets and industries. remove all price gouging laws and allow the people with the deepest pockets to set the prices. if your for a free market then you can't pick and choose where it is and isn't ok, allow a total free for all.

Regulation = Socialism = Communism = Death

This is pretty much the understanding of most folks who have heard all these catch words on the Internet or through the main stream media and have no clue what they are talking about.

Forget price gauging laws, let's remove "any" regulation in this "apparent" free market. This is true freedom and this is where America would thrive. /s

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That said, personally I am against manufacturers controlling their dealers both principally and through some anecdotal evidence. I have seen the opposite side here in other businesses like air conditioning where manufacturers manage their distributors and dealers across countries and have literally killed any real competition or growth for businesses. It then becomes a race to the bottom in a forced manner and most people tune out which creates vacuum instead and prices rise. Of course this is simplistic but I generally don't think manufacturers should control dealers in the specific car industry.

As I have previously said, manufacturers should open their channels up to direct consumers (B2C) instead of their traditional B2B models and a huge number of problems will be alleviated. The playing field will be leveled and dealers will then need to become innovative in order to sell cars with service add ons, etc instead of being leech middlemen and scoring random ADMs without providing any real value.

However though, Ford could (easily!) do this but this would mean - more infrastructure, more spending, more direct consumer contracting in terms of sales, customer service and plethora of other stuff that Ford doesn't want to handle. They literally do not give a shit and so we have this system and this works well for everyone but the consumers.

Good thing though there are some dealers that have created a more sustainable model (similar to Costco) where they have huge turnover/sales but with very thin margins and still making a fair share of money like @Granger Ford who have been a trusted dealer for many.

 

[Skye]

During their earnings calls earlier this week, Toyota and Honda are both "decreasing their sales incentives" (rebates/cash back), due to limited supply and high demand.

 

[Skye]

Reading posts this AM, I'm grateful for the deal I got. Some aspects of this topic have changed dramatically throughout the industry, just in the last month or so. I'm afraid as more and more people realize their window of opportunity is closing and pursue their orders (on any car/truck/SUV), it's going to become even worse.

 

[Hells Fury]

Reading posts this AM, I'm grateful for the deal I got. Some aspects of this topic have changed dramatically throughout the industry, just in the last month or so. I'm afraid as more and more people realize their window of opportunity is closing and pursue their orders (on any car/truck/SUV), it's going to become even worse.

your probably right….. 20-30k right around the corner.

 

[Hells Fury]

Now that WSJ covered it, wouldn't surprise me if in a short while AGs start prosecuting just for optics.

At this point, seems to be just talking points. Also it seems like its a say what they want to hear thing. We shall see

 

[newmoon]

Think about it this way the cost of EVERYTHING is going up drastically over the past year, and the prices aren't getting better. From what I have read 2022 may be the last year for the 500, if it's anything like the end of the 350s expect prices to rise.

 

[Smunczen]

The dealer model is so outdated and will
go away. They are trying to pass a bill in Ga to rivian sell direct to the end user.

 

[Hells Fury]

Again, I get prices have increased. But a lot of the prices your seeing now are way put there. You are seeing dealers wanting more for non cftp cars than actual cftp.


Im sure the values will hold on Shelby's and other speciality cars. But not regular every day sedans.

 

[Strokerswild]

OP, I wish you the best of luck. I was where you are many weeks ago and spent an inordinate amount of time hunting for a list deal on a '22, with nothing to show for it but aggravation. I'll just be brief and say you're either taking it in the shorts and paying a markup or passing. Ford's "system" needs work to put it mildly. At this point I doubt I'll bother pursuing whatever's next for the top shelf Mustang because it'll be the same shit show.

So, the GT500 is out, and apparently so is the Bronco I wanted to order. Simply put, that saves me about $130K. I'll continue to stalk a chunk of lakeshore I've been after since 2008, and plan on picking up an older bucket list car or two instead. Sorry, Ford!

 

[Saxgod]

I understand supply and demand but I searched nationwide over 300+ available every one is 10k or more once messaging and speaking with sales managers.

real customers paying these prices will be the ones left screwed down the road while dealerships are making handover fist and will again when someone loses their ass if ever trading in or selling down the road.

I dont understand how a customer who willingly paid a 30k markup to get a vehicle they obviously want will end up screwed down the road? In the end they bought the car they wanted and willingly paid for it. Sounds like a good situation to me.

 

[Hells Fury]

OP, I wish you the best of luck. I was where you are many weeks ago and spent an inordinate amount of time hunting for a list deal on a '22, with nothing to show for it but aggravation. I'll just be brief and say you're either taking it in the shorts and paying a markup or passing. Ford's "system" needs work to put it mildly. At this point I doubt I'll bother pursuing whatever's next for the top shelf Mustang because it'll be the same shit show.

So, the GT500 is out, and apparently so is the Bronco I wanted to order. Simply put, that saves me about $130K. I'll continue to stalk a chunk of lakeshore I've been after since 2008, and plan on picking up an older bucket list car or two instead. Sorry, Ford!

Awesome!! Seems like a great alternative. Enjoy the lakeshore!

 

[Bikeman315]

Now that WSJ covered it, wouldn't surprise me if in a short while AGs start prosecuting just for optics.

Prosecuting what? Nothing illegal is being done.

 

[Bikeman315]

Again, I get prices have increased. But a lot of the prices your seeing now are way put there. You are seeing dealers wanting more for non cftp cars than actual cftp.


Im sure the values will hold on Shelby's and other speciality cars. But not regular every day sedans.

Hi George. Have read through this thread and certainly understand your frustration. That said, it’s just another “ADM” thread of which we had hundreds over the years.

We are where we are and it sucks. There is no current recourse. If you really want the car do your due diligence, find the best deal, and buy it. If you cannot afford it or do not want to pay it that’s OK too. But there is no sense in going around and around this same topic. Until it changes, if ever, it is what it is. Time to move on.

PS. If you really want to get frustrated try buying a stainless steel Rolex anything. At least you can find a GT500.

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