AC COMPRESSOR FAILURE? 2017 EB PP

[Hurricane321]

2017 EB Premium PP, 136K OG miles (70K on short block), Black on Black on Black.... Recently discovered a problem with my AC, was suddenly blowing hot, and discovered the line from the compressor to condenser (the "discharge tube") had broken off at the metal flange where the line bolts to the compressor itself. I changed the line yesterday and recharged the system, which is holding pressure, but Im still blowing hot. Previously at idle, when I'd turn the AC on there would be a quick dip in RPM when the compressor kicked on or the clutch engaged (however that process works), which seems to be absent at the moment. Based on everything I'm seeing its easy to jump to the conclusion that the compressor has expired after 7 years of daily driving in south florida, BUT, I've also read about how the compressor wont turn on if the freon is low, which obviously it was considering the line broke off...so I'm looking for some advice to help figure this out...Is the compressor shot at this point or is there some kind of reset switch, button, procedure to reset the compressor from this condition now that the system is charged, or is it a drive cycle thing where if the compressor went into "protection mode" it would come back once pressure was in the system for a period of time? Normally I wouldnt consider this a computer controlled drive cycle on a purely mechanical system but I have to assume anything is possible with amount of active influence the modern ecu has on the car.

The AC had been getting a little weak before this happened, perhaps a slow leak when the aluminum began to break or maybe the compressor failing, I'm not sure, but it was still blowing cold prior to all of a sudden blowing max assumptively when the 134A leaked all the way out or the compressor detected low refrig.

**This is the 134A system not the 1234Y system**

Thanks in advance.

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[ORRadtech]

How long was the line broken?
Did you pull the system into a vacuum before recharging? Or did you just dump in refrigerant?
Have you put a set of manifold guages on to check pressures?
Do you even know if the compressor clutch is engaging?
Lots more questions but bottom line there is no reset and the only protection I'm aware of are high and low pressure switches.

 

[Hurricane321]

How long was the line broken?
Did you pull the system into a vacuum before recharging? Or did you just dump in refrigerant?
Have you put a set of manifold guages on to check pressures?
Do you even know if the compressor clutch is engaging?
Lots more questions but bottom line there is no reset and the only protection I'm aware of are high and low pressure switches.

Thanks for your response, loss of refrig was known for about 2 weeks before I actually looked into it, we were in our 2 weeks of winter in florida so I wasnt using my AC, then we got a hot day and I turned it on and found out I had a problem.

NO i didnt take the car to the shop to put it on an AC machine, because the system had no pressure at the low pressure port, which would be expected with a broken line, and I checked with one of the service advisors I know at "The worlds highest volume ford dealer" and he told me, that the "dealership answer" is its needs to be evac'd, but the "real answer" is the system is evac'd due to the broken line so recharging it should get it blowing cold just fine....the fact that it isnt blowing cold is why I assume the compressor is smoked.

Additionally, no, I'm not sure the clutch is engaging, I don't think so, but Im also not sure how to properly check that beyond simply looking to see if its spinning with the pulley? Which if thats the way to check, then no its not spinning with the pulley....the change that I mentioned noticing is that I don't notice any additional load at idle when I turn the AC on, where before this issue the RPM would dip when the compressor kicked on and pulled additional load at idle....

Curious, what would manifold gauges tell me about the HVAC? I'm not a professional tech, I'm just a guy who used to manage a shop and a racer so I know enough to work on my own stuff, but I dont have all the tech available to me that I had at my disposal when I was in the industry, so I'm following logic and common sense which I know doesnt always work anymore.

 

[Paddles]

Dang don't forget to celebrate for achieving 7 years working AC on a 2017 in Florida

 

[Hurricane321]

Dang don't forget to celebrate for achieving 7 years working AC on a 2017 in Florida

LOL...yeah, black on black too...heat soak city. The AC probably had to have been on for at least 120 of the 136K miles on the car...

 

[ORRadtech]

Whoever you're talking to is giving you crap information
Anytime an ac system is open to the atmosphere it needs a vacuum pulled before recharging. Two weeks open in Florida means there's a ton of moisture in the system. That moisture will corrode the internals and destroy the dryer. Not to mention what might have crawled into those open lines.
I'd suggest you do a bit of research on how an automotive ac system works. There's a ton of information on how they work and how to troubleshoot them on YouTube and the internet in general.

 

[Paddles]

Depending on how long you plan to keep the car, at 135k miles I would consider skipping the troubleshooting and heading straight for having an experienced HVAC shop replace the system as a whole. Otherwise it could become a game of fix this part and another breaks.

 

[Hurricane321]

Whoever you're talking to is giving you crap information
Anytime an ac system is open to the atmosphere it needs a vacuum pulled before recharging. Two weeks open in Florida means there's a ton of moisture in the system. That moisture will corrode the internals and destroy the dryer. Not to mention what might have crawled into those open lines.
I'd suggest you do a bit of research on how an automotive ac system works. There's a ton of information on how they work and how to troubleshoot them on YouTube and the internet in general.

Well, whoever I'm talking to has a background of knowledge that I have confidence in, and works at the busiest dealership in the state, which means he sees a ton of cars, which means he has basis of comparison for my specific vehicle...and he gave me the book answer, and he gave me the "its probably gonna work without following the book" answer......

So the reality of the situation is this....im well out of warranty, and I'm looking to achieve cool air as quickly and easily as possible...meaning, if I were to change the compressor and that didnt resolve my issue, then I'd probably accepting that its gonna be a hot summer and that my climate control system has regressed 50 years to the 2 @ 80 system...meaning 2 windows open @ 80 mph...I'm not going deeper than the compressor as its my daily and with this being something that doesn't effect drivability I don't have the time to rip down the dash or rip the nose apart to get to any of the other components that could potentially be involved in this issue - I don't necessarily care about the book proper procedure for this, nor does it matter to me if I've got some moisture in the system...unless moisture in the system would be a potential cause for the system blowing hot air after I replaced the line and recharged it to good pressure well then lets talk about it, but otherwise I really just looking for confirmation that the compressor is the next logical step in the process of elimination method of getting to the cause of the problem and solving it. The future for this car is most likely that it'll get built once I buy my next vehicle and its no longer my daily driver, but until that point we're looking for quick and easy resolutions to keep things comfortable in the florida heat....

I should note - I'm not looking to dump thousands into solving this issue...and I'm sure I'd easily be looking at 3k minimum parts and labor, easy...and probably still at least half that plus a weekend of my time if I did it myself.

 

[Hurricane321]

Depending on how long you plan to keep the car, at 135k miles I would consider skipping the troubleshooting and heading straight for having an experienced HVAC shop replace the system as a whole. Otherwise it could become a game of fix this part and another breaks.

Yeah, I get that, the strength of new parts exposes weakness in old parts....but in this case I'm of the attitude that if its not the compressor, I no longer have AC....I'm not ripping the dash apart...If it were the condenser I might consider dedicating a weekend to swapping that out and maybe upgrading the intercooler in the process while the front end is opened up but otherwise I'm really looking to fix it quick and hoping for good luck with longevity after the fact.....sooner or later I'm going to pick up a 150 and build the mustang but until its no longer my daily it cant be down that long.

I should note - I'm not looking to dump thousands into solving this issue...and I'm sure I'd easily be looking at 3k minimum parts and labor, easy...and probably still at least half that plus a weekend of my time if I did it myself.

 

[Hurricane321]

***bump***

 

[Whitedevil95]

Without a manifold gauge set and pulling vacuum. How exactly did you "Recharge" the system. Can you explain how you did it?

 

[Paddles]

I have a feeling you're going to need the 'by the book' method for this one. I agree with @ORRadtech that your trusted mechanic is leading you astray here.

 

[HURRICANE_321$]

Without a manifold gauge set and pulling vacuum. How exactly did you "Recharge" the system. Can you explain how you did it?

I refilled it with the over the counter 134A from the auto parts store, the one with the digital gauges that cost almost as much as what we used to charge for an AC recharge at the shop I managed in PA years ago. I'm struggling to understand the problem with simply pushing refrigerant back into the system....my discharge tube broke - which means if the compressor had been running it PUSHED everything out not pulled the outside in...right, the discharge side would blow out...so don't care about "what could have gotten sucked in there" - so is the vacuum required to basically eliminate a condition similar to a vapor lock...removing trapped air from the system that would effectively be creating pressure in the system and a false appearance of a charged system because its showing pressure on the gauge when I read the low pressure port?

If its not to "burp" the system and its just about preventing contaminants then its not essential.

 

[HURRICANE_321$]

I have a feeling you're going to need the 'by the book' method for this one. I agree with @ORRadtech that your trusted mechanic is leading you astray here.

If thats what it takes, then fine, I have access to the equipment without wasting a bunch of time and money at a shop, but I need to understand why...and so far no one has really provided that info. I understand why it should be done a certain way, but I've yet to see why it has to be done a certain way to work....outside of potentially removing trapped air that would prevent a full charge or prevent circulation I dont see how vac effects the ability to charge when the charge is pressurize and doesnt need vac to transfer

 

[Paddles]

If thats what it takes, then fine, I have access to the equipment without wasting a bunch of time and money at a shop, but I need to understand why...and so far no one has really provided that info. I understand why it should be done a certain way, but I've yet to see why it has to be done a certain way to work....outside of potentially removing trapped air that would prevent a full charge or prevent circulation I dont see how vac effects the ability to charge when the charge is pressurize and doesnt need vac to transfer

I'm no expert but I believe that any air or moisture in the system could indeed prevent a charge, even a tiny amount of air/moisture is too much. Not to mention the damage you will cause by running the system this way. Those recharge kits are for systems in good condition. I think since yours has been broken and exposed to atmosphere it now needs a vacuum pull.

Also, are you 100% sure that a low charge is the only problem?

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