A10 PP1 vs PP2

[howlins550]

Well from what I've seen so far, both being completely stock, the manual 18 mustang best was 12.6@115 while the a10 was [email protected]

That is absolutely huge for being the same car with different transmission. I have also completed my order of the PP1 with 10R80 based on this and seeing how well it acts on turns and daily driving.

Sponsored

 

[Norm Peterson]

The A10 keeps the revs up into the powerband, the manual does not, it has to rev back up into the powerband.

I absolutely do get this aspect, it should be 8th grade level obvious once you see a dyno plot and have some idea about gear spacing.

Of course there is reward for both auto/manual drivers, you assume because of technology and "automation" as if that might be a bad thing.

On balance, I find it to be a slight negative. That's personally. There are things I'm more than willing to hand off to a computer (engine fueling and ignition, for example), but deciding what gear the transmission gets to be in at any given instant isn't one of them. Not even if the computer does a better job of it than I can.

I don't drag race, or get involved with street challenges from stoplights. That doesn't mean I'm an old slowpoke when the light goes green, just that there isn't any sense of 'winning' or 'losing' involved.

It's a run what ya brung, just hope ya brung enough kind of world. Who ever gets over the finish line first wins, everything else is excuses.

If you're actually competing and whatever rules you're racing under let you bring everything you want to bring, sure. But what about the time between competitions when there's nothing worth winning?

... and since I can't drive manual anymore my mind has been opened to the new A10. I had no choice, buy the auto or don't buy at all.

Seriously, I'm curious as to what forced this change. My own knees aren't in the best of shape (screwed both of them up a couple times each while BMX racing 30+ years ago, and had to get at least one of them screwed back together), but at least they aren't interfering with driving 3-pedal cars. Yet. PM me if you prefer.

I will say that this A10 gives the fewest hints that it's an automatic of any I've ever heard, at least in the road course videos featuring it. That's a good thing.


Norm
next round's on me . . . :cheers:

 

[Rash]

In sport mode in 10th gear it would get a bit bogged down ...

Exactly - I don’t know why I couldn’t think of that term - it bogs down in tenth. It should downshift around 1200, especially when on an incline, but it doesn’t, it’ll hold it down to 1000 or even less. And if you try to just slowly get it back up to speed, you can’t - it bogs down and you gotta mash the pedal or paddle shift it.

It’s not a major deal, just a daily annoyance.

 

[growler]

I absolutely do get this aspect, it should be 8th grade level obvious once you see a dyno plot and have some idea about gear spacing.



On balance, I find it to be a slight negative. That's personally. There are things I'm more than willing to hand off to a computer (engine fueling and ignition, for example), but deciding what gear the transmission gets to be in at any given instant isn't one of them. Not even if the computer does a better job of it than I can.

I don't drag race, or get involved with street challenges from stoplights. That doesn't mean I'm an old slowpoke when the light goes green, just that there isn't any sense of 'winning' or 'losing' involved.



If you're actually competing and whatever rules you're racing under let you bring everything you want to bring, sure. But what about the time between competitions when there's nothing worth winning?



Seriously, I'm curious as to what forced this change. My own knees aren't in the best of shape (screwed both of them up a couple times each while BMX racing 30+ years ago, and had to get at least one of them screwed back together), but at least they aren't interfering with driving 3-pedal cars. Yet. PM me if you prefer.

I will say that this A10 gives the fewest hints that it's an automatic of any I've ever heard, at least in the road course videos featuring it. That's a good thing.


Norm
next round's on me . . . :cheers:

I do not and will not see anyone's point of view that they derive more satisfaction by using old technology to go slower..unless its vintage race.. the whole point in racing is TO GO AS FAST AS YOU CAN. not to show off your mad skillz pushing a pedal and pulling a knob that's slowing you down

 

[Norm Peterson]

I do not and will not see anyone's point of view that they derive more satisfaction by using old technology to go slower..unless its vintage race.. the whole point in racing is TO GO AS FAST AS YOU CAN. not to show off your mad skillz pushing a pedal and pulling a knob that's slowing you down

Let me simplify it for you . . . I don't race. From time to time I do drive pretty hard, BUT I'M NOT RACING. I don't even need the bragging rights based on what people who do race can demonstrate.

I really would rather see 1.4x g's of cornering show up in my datalogging (I've already seen 1.3's) than get a low-11 second time slip or pick up another couple of mph down the straights.


Norm

 

[howlins550]

Let me simplify it for you . . . I don't race. From time to time I do drive pretty hard, BUT I'M NOT RACING.

I really would rather see 1.4x g's of cornering show up in my datalogging than get a low-11 second time slip.


Norm

I'm with you on that part of better handling then straight, however if I can do both with a new transmission that's this good, it's just a huge bonus

 

[Norm Peterson]

That it could well be of advantage even on a road course would actually be the easy hurdle for me to get past . . .


Norm

 

[Norm Peterson]

The new A10 is a game changer. Tuned to each car, it will be be in most big Fords in a short while. From personal experience it's lovely to have a smooth torque convertor again after years of jerky dual clutch jimping.

Exactly what I keep hearing/reading. DSG's seem to be really nice when you're pushing it pretty hard. Not so nice in relaxed street driving.


Norm

 

[Loki-GT]

I absolutely do get this aspect, it should be 8th grade level obvious once you see a dyno plot and have some idea about gear spacing.



On balance, I find it to be a slight negative. That's personally. There are things I'm more than willing to hand off to a computer (engine fueling and ignition, for example), but deciding what gear the transmission gets to be in at any given instant isn't one of them. Not even if the computer does a better job of it than I can.

I don't drag race, or get involved with street challenges from stoplights. That doesn't mean I'm an old slowpoke when the light goes green, just that there isn't any sense of 'winning' or 'losing' involved.



If you're actually competing and whatever rules you're racing under let you bring everything you want to bring, sure. But what about the time between competitions when there's nothing worth winning?



Seriously, I'm curious as to what forced this change. My own knees aren't in the best of shape (screwed both of them up a couple times each while BMX racing 30+ years ago, and had to get at least one of them screwed back together), but at least they aren't interfering with driving 3-pedal cars. Yet. PM me if you prefer.

I will say that this A10 gives the fewest hints that it's an automatic of any I've ever heard, at least in the road course videos featuring it. That's a good thing.


Norm
next round's on me . . . :cheers:

You bring up valid points. :cheers:

I have diabetes and for the past 2 years it has run out of control. Sadly this has brought about severe nephropathy in both feet and a tumor in my left foot, the diabetes makes surgery difficult so I'm holding off since it's benign.

Blood flow thankfully is excellent but the feel for driving 3 pedals (specifically the clutch) is no longer there plus my left foot sends electric shocks through out my left leg. Should that happen when shifting the last thing I need is to miss a shift. If this starts to happen in my right leg it could mean my driving days are over unless they come up with something to help or I get my sugar under control.

The good news is just this week I saw a new endocrinologist who has started me on different drugs, actually old school which has cut my blood sugar in half already, new drugs just made it worse. If I can keep up on this I should be able to keep the nephropathy at bay. I've put nearly 600 miles on the car in 2 weeks because I enjoy it so much, the thing is, I know I would enjoy it more driving a stick.

I actually test drove a 2018 manual, my left foot could tell it was on the pedal but you know how your feet know what pressure is being put down, my left foot knows the pedal is there but the tumor makes it hard to discern pressure which means forget manual cars.

This is why I am so happy with the A10, no way I could drive an older automatic just no way.

 

[Loki-GT]

Exactly - I don’t know why I couldn’t think of that term - it bogs down in tenth. It should downshift around 1200, especially when on an incline, but it doesn’t, it’ll hold it down to 1000 or even less. And if you try to just slowly get it back up to speed, you can’t - it bogs down and you gotta mash the pedal or paddle shift it.

It’s not a major deal, just a daily annoyance.

Last night I tested this on several hills and one actual decent sized hill and at times it got a bit low but maybe because of the 3:55's it was easier to maintain in 10th.

On one steeper hill while in normal auto mode I used the paddle to go into 9th and at the top of the hill went back into 10th, smooth as glass. I'm on the fence about it shifting sooner by itself, I'm so used to Fords that are more than happy to wander through gears, I'm glad this one does as well as it does.

 

[Norm Peterson]

You bring up valid points. :cheers:

I have diabetes and for the past 2 years it has run out of control.

Man, I'm real sorry to hear that. Was hoping it was something mechanically wrong with some joint or a bad back. My wife was borderline diabetic or maybe just a bit past that, but has managed (so for) to wrestle it back under control. We hope it's not a case of waiting for some other shoe to drop.

Your decision makes absolute sense and would have even if it wasn't an either "go A10 or stop driving" situation. I wish you the best of luck with your condition and your new car.


Norm

 

[Loki-GT]

Man, I'm real sorry to hear that. Was hoping it was something mechanically wrong with some joint or a bad back. My wife was borderline diabetic or maybe just a bit past that, but has managed (so for) to wrestle it back under control. We hope it's not a case of waiting for some other shoe to drop.

Your decision makes absolute sense and would have even if it wasn't an either "go A10 or stop driving" situation. I wish you the best of luck with your condition and your new car.


Norm

Norm,

Hopefully she is able to keep her numbers down, diabetes is a silent killer that takes its time. Good luck to you guys.

 

[Rash]

Last night I tested this on several hills and one actual decent sized hill and at times it got a bit low but maybe because of the 3:55's it was easier to maintain in 10th.

On one steeper hill while in normal auto mode I used the paddle to go into 9th and at the top of the hill went back into 10th, smooth as glass. I'm on the fence about it shifting sooner by itself, I'm so used to Fords that are more than happy to wander through gears, I'm glad this one does as well as it does.

Yea I just need to get used to it I guess.

 

[DickR]

Yea I just need to get used to it I guess.

I did a quick test today and had no problem getting 10th to 9th downshifts at revs below 1500 in both D and S and normal drive mode by just adding a little bit of throttle on a level road and on a relatively steep incline at revs around 1200 or less. I had one chance to try 9th - 8th (based on watching the revs) on the steep incline and that shift seemed a little harder to initiate. This was all with a very light touch on the throttle including slow movement and as little travel as possible to initiate the shift.

The car never had a problem maintaining speed or accelerating gradually (since light touch on throttle) in 10th except on the steep incline at low revs briefly before the downshift but I didn't have a chance to test multiple times on the relatively steep incline.

 

[Loki-GT]

I did a quick test today and had no problem getting 10th to 9th downshifts at revs below 1500 in both D and S and normal drive mode by just adding a little bit of throttle on a level road and on a relatively steep incline at revs around 1200 or less. I had one chance to try 9th - 8th (based on watching the revs) on the steep incline and that shift seemed a little harder to initiate. This was all with a very light touch on the throttle including slow movement and as little travel as possible to initiate the shift.

The car never had a problem maintaining speed or accelerating gradually (since light touch on throttle) in 10th except on the steep incline at low revs briefly before the downshift but I didn't have a chance to test multiple times on the relatively steep incline.

What gear does your car have? Mine has 3:55's.

Sponsored