2nd Gen Coyote - minimal electronics?

[Alex_V]

Hello to the forum

I was wondering what are the minimal wiring you need to keep for the 2nd Gen Coyote engine to run? I have a wrecked 2017 Mustang GT that is donating its drive tran to a FFR Cobra project. Usually people buy crate motors with Ford power packs, but I cheaped out and bought a crashed Stang. I have heard that wiring can become a bit tricky since the computer wont see the dash, ABS, and a few other things. Can anyone share a bit of wisdom?

Sponsored

 

[HRSEPLA]

Ford Gen 2 ECU control pack, Ngauge and Lund tune is what I am doing for my Coyote Swap project.

 

[Alex_V]

Ford Gen 2 ECU control pack, Ngauge and Lund tune is what I am doing for my Coyote Swap project.

Are you getting a $1,500 Gen 2 ECU control pack? Any reason not to use stock wiring/ECU?

 

[HRSEPLA]

Are you getting a $1,500 Gen 2 ECU control pack? Any reason not to use stock wiring/ECU?

Yes, I am using that, I didn’t know how much you were keeping with your engine. Mine is in a Fox swap so I have no stock wiring.

 

[Alex_V]

I didn’t know how much you were keeping with your engine. Mines going to a Fox swap so I have no stock wiring.

I bought a wrecked GT, so I have almost everything. But I did read on Cobra forums that mustang electronics don't play well if certain parts are missing. My kit car wont have ABS, original dash, and a few other things.

 

[boB]

The experiences of John George may help, he has details on his ECU setup (using a F-150 engine). http://www.johngeorgeracing.com/wordpress/ffr48-car-setup/part-numbers/

 

[Alex_V]

The experiences of John George may help, he has details on his ECU setup (using a F-150 engine). http://www.johngeorgeracing.com/wordpress/ffr48-car-setup/part-numbers/

Lot of people go with Ford power packs for these types of projects. Just a function of spending $1,500 on a generic ECU.

Anyone knows if teh key is read by the computer, or the dash, or something else?

 

[TigerFire13]

Lot of people go with Ford power packs for these types of projects. Just a function of spending $1,500 on a generic ECU.

Anyone knows if teh key is read by the computer, or the dash, or something else?

I don't know which device talks with the keyfob, but I do know the car will not "see" the keyfob as being inside the car, if the sensor beneath the cupholder is unplugged.

 

[Wolverine]

Alex_V

Sent you a PM.

Finally another FFR builder on the M6G forum! Welcome! I am building a Gen 3 Daytona Coupe-R now. Using a Gen 3 Coyote pulled from a wrecked 2019 Mustang GT. I have the original Mustang PCM and wiring harness, but the more research I do...the less likely it seems like it could be used.

I hate the idea of buying parts “twice”. I already have a PCM, why would I want another?? But the short version is that’s the easy button approach to this problem. It **might** be possible to do this swap with the Mustang PCM....but at the bare minimum you need to disable PATS (Passive Anti-Theft System) and all the additional Mustang modules that you will not have (Body Control Module, ABS, etc).

Another big one is the fuel supply issue. The factory Mustang PCM is set up for a returnless fuel system. The fuel pump in the tank is in constant communication with the PCM to supply fuel based on load/throttle/rpm. In the Factory Five kit-car, you typically use a standard electric in-tank pump (a Walbro 255lph in my case) with two lines going to a fuel pressure regulator just before the engine....one feed and one return. A single line from the regulator will supply the fuel rail of the engine itself.

I have more data and research on this too. Despite everything I’ve learned, and despite me NOT wanting to buy the Ford Racing Control Pack ($1,500-$1,800 for parts I sort of already own), I’m still leaning that way right now. It’s cheaper than the alternative...AEM Infinity ($3,000+).

 

[boB]

One reason I mention John George is he had the first Gen 3 Daytona Coupe R, I went to see it for its first day out at VIR and knew then that I had to build one. Because of A/C issues and no real side windows I eventually bought my Mustang instead and am happy I did but I still wish it looked like a Daytona Coupe. Anyway, I got to know the FFR group in Raleigh NC and they did not know of anyone who had any success using the Mustang PCM. An Arduino could probably be set up to fake out all the required signals but by the time it is done $1500 may seem like a great deal.

Good luck with building your FFR, it sure looks like a lot of fun!

 

[Wolverine]

I am very familiar with John George’s Coupe-R build, primarily because he regularly posted the details, problems/fixes, and his setup specs online for to share with other builders. Big thanks to him for that.

I have called around a bit and tried to get answers to the PATS delete. That is the first step if you’re going down this road of reusing the Mustang PCM. Can’t disable it tweak any of the other settings if the security portion has it all locked up. Never got a straight answer, let alone a source for who could delete it, but mere whispers that it **could** be done? Maybe? By somebody? Ex-NSA agent living in a cardboard box in the Arizona desert? C’mon man... that is not a reliable strategy when you’re building a car with a modern fuel injected high compression quad-cam engine. Get something small wrong early on and it makes big ripples that affects other things later when there is more on the line.

I begrudgingly stand by my last statement: the Ford Racing Control Pack is the easy-button solution to the PCM problem.

@boB - the AC issue you speak of doesn’t apply anymore. There is an off-the-shelf unit (made in France) that fits above the passenger footbox and works great. The side windows exist now too, but they’re like the originals... fixed window with a sliding-section within, which opens and closes. Not a one-touch automatic roll up/down window like your modern daily driver has. However, FormaCars is working on designing a set that will be exactly that. We will see how they turn out. It has already been done on a few custom cars before, so certainly possible.

 

[Strokerswild]

My brother is building a FFR Cobra with a Gen1 Coyote.

He gave up on the OEM PCM and went Control Pack. Someday he might even finish it, but got distracted with a Boss 429 clone/restomod. I hope to experience both before I die.

 

[boB]

@boB - the AC issue you speak of doesn’t apply anymore. There is an off-the-shelf unit (made in France) that fits above the passenger footbox and works great. The side windows exist now too, but they’re like the originals... fixed window with a sliding-section within, which opens and closes. Not a one-touch automatic roll up/down window like your modern daily driver has. However, FormaCars is working on designing a set that will be exactly that. We will see how they turn out. It has already been done on a few custom cars before, so certainly possible.

Yep, I have been following the FormaCars windows, I don't need auto-power windows but at least slide-up/down full size would be nice. It's still not too late for me to build a coupe but in another 5 years I may have trouble getting in and out of it..

 

[Wolverine]

It's still not too late for me to build a coupe but in another 5 years I may have trouble getting in and out of it..

And this, right here, is EXACTLY why I decided it was time to build the car I have been wanting to build since the late 1990’s. I’m not getting any younger... better to have a racecar when I can actually really use it!

 

[Alex_V]

Well, I will give a crack at it with a stock setup. If that fails I will go to a Ford power pack. Wonder if the stock computer/wiring will bring anything on ebay.

Sponsored