2018 new dash thoughts?

[Norm Peterson]

Wow - from keyless entry being for lazy consumers all the way to right to drive and people's incompetence at that activity.... Things escalate quickly on the soapbox

I was willing to leave things at 'feature creep'.

I'm sure people felt this way when they started changing cars over from hand crank starters to an electric starter

Now you're reaching. People got their arms broken by hand-cranked starting (this happened to one of my great aunts). And power windows were long considered a luxury-status item, limousine and Cadillac-level stuff for the socially "arrived" crowd.

So how exactly does push button start and keyless entry make people more entitled and less serious about driving?

Because doing things that way is closer to the virtual world of playing video games and operating tablets than to the very mechanical business of driving a car. Seems to me it'd be a good idea to take a step back from the virtual before you start driving, and having to actively do everything on a mechanical/physical level is as good a way as I can think of to help make that break happen. Needing your car to have the ability to "sense" what your intentions might be, just by your mere presence . . . an overdeveloped sense of entitlement.


Norm

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[Norm Peterson]

Yeah, claiming there's anything wrong with preferring the ease and convenience that technology (such as keyless entry/ignition) brings is pretty luddite-esque

And when they "solve" non-existent problems and imagined shortcomings, they become examples of technology run amok, designed that way to impress the easily impressed. That's what I see too much of at the car design level even before getting into any discussion where you're apparently expected to fall in lock-step with the self-proclaimed avant-garde.


Norm.

 

[RocketGuy3]

Because doing things that way is closer to the virtual world of playing video games and operating tablets than to the very mechanical business of driving a car. Seems to me it'd be a good idea to take a step back from the virtual before you start driving, and having to actively do everything on a mechanical/physical level is as good a way as I can think of to help make that break happen. Needing your car to have the ability to "sense" what your intentions might be, just by your mere presence . . . an overdeveloped sense of entitlement.


Norm

Even if there was some validity to this, what exactly is the problem with getting closer to the "virtual world" in the first place? Do you think it makes people worse drivers that they can push a button instead of turning a key? Even all else being equal in the car?

 

[dron_jones]

Now you're reaching. People got their arms broken by hand-cranked starting (this happened to one of my great aunts). And power windows were long considered a luxury-status item, limousine and Cadillac-level stuff for the socially "arrived" crowd.

I am demonstrating a point at how ridiculous the connection you are making is. Ok so key start is a safety item, someone could argue that so are power windows as when you are driving you can quickly put them down and put your hands back on the wheel instead of needing to operate the vehicle with one hand while rolling with the other. Keyless entry is also a benefit because if you have ever lived up north you will know that physical lock mechanisms can freeze close, preventing you from being able to get a key in. We all get it, you are some kind of racetrack expert, everything on a car should be analog so your years of experience and hours behind the wheel are all the "systems" you ever need. The constant complaints about every technological enhancement and why they represent the end to everything great in the automotive world is exhausting and frankly borders sometimes on the delusional. If you don't like new cars, just keep buying old ones, plenty of them out there for you to enjoy, but just because new advancements don't suit your taste it doesn't mean there is something wrong with the technology, nor does it mean that something is fundamentally wrong with the consumer who wants it. They are just different from you, and different is ok.

Because doing things that way is closer to the virtual world of playing video games and operating tablets than to the very mechanical business of driving a car. Seems to me it'd be a good idea to take a step back from the virtual before you start driving, and having to actively do everything on a mechanical/physical level is as good a way as I can think of to help make that break happen. Needing your car to have the ability to "sense" what your intentions might be, just by your mere presence . . . an overdeveloped sense of entitlement.

If your problem is with poorly trained drivers, than focus on better driver training, blaming a car because it has push button start, keyless entry for bad driving habits is ludicrous, its like me blaming a bag of chips because i'm fat... no I'm fat because i don't exercise and i eat like crap. Why is it you feel like everyone must understand every mechanical aspect of something to operate it? A car is a utility item, a tool that helps us accomplish a task, to us it is more than that, we are enthusiasts but not understanding mechanically how a car works does not make someone a bad driver.

And when they "solve" non-existent problems and imagined shortcomings, they become examples of technology run amok, designed that way to impress the easily impressed. That's what I see too much of at the car design level even before getting into any discussion where you're apparently expected to fall in lock-step with the self-proclaimed avant-garde.

Wait are you talking about the day that skynet becomes self aware?

 

[moubayed]

All you really need is an ammeter

Way too hightech :lol:

 

[spectremotorsports]

BACK IN MY DAY ALL WE NEEDED WAS A HORSE. NONE OF THIS NEWFANGLED TIRES AND ENGINE NONSENSE.

The irony of all of this is the inevitable arguing about how any new technology is garish and unnecessary....on a forum... on the internet... about an everyman car that puts down more power than any reasonable person would ever really need. Progress is progress, if you don't want it that's fine, the boys over at Ariel would be happy to sell you an Atom.

 

[chain]

BACK IN MY DAY ALL WE NEEDED WAS A HORSE. NONE OF THIS NEWFANGLED TIRES AND ENGINE NONSENSE.

The irony of all of this is the inevitable arguing about how any new technology is garish and unnecessary....on a forum... on the internet... about an everyman car that puts down more power than any reasonable person would ever really need. Progress is progress, if you don't want it that's fine, the boys over at Ariel would be happy to sell you an Atom.

I would be happy to buy an Atom..... If only I could afford one.

 

[Norm Peterson]

The irony of all of this is the inevitable arguing about how any new technology is garish and unnecessary....on a forum... on the internet...

Technology does have its advantages and its place. I used computers in my jobs from the early 1970's until I retired.

But that doesn't make liking the results of technological advances an all-or-nothing proposition. It's entirely reasonable to laud some advances while disliking others. I happen to appreciate EFI.

about an everyman car that puts down more power than any reasonable person would ever really need. Progress is progress, if you don't want it that's fine, the boys over at Ariel would be happy to sell you an Atom.

Why does "more power" always surface as an excuse for why everybody is supposed to accept feature creep? At best it's a palliative, something intended to compensate for less desirable things without addressing them at all. A con game of sorts.

I would be happy to buy an Atom..... If only I could afford one.

I could still happily drive such a car, or a 200+ HP Caterham 7 . . . at least part of the year.


Norm

 

[Norm Peterson]

I am demonstrating a point . . .

in a manner that appears to be intentionally misunderstanding what I'm trying to get across. I'm not saying that no explanation exists that could cause me to change my position on this or other matters - this does happen from time to time - just that this thread has neither found it for me nor pointed me in a direction that has yet managed to

I've been taking aim at attitudes, not potential skill levels or anybody's ability to develop them. I'm standing pat on the notion that an attitude better suited to a video driving game where everything is pushbutton-easy doesn't belong in the driver seat of a real, physical car. Must be a traditional hotrodder/sports car enthusiast's DIY-oriented attitude that once you've got a solution that's good enough for the task, it really is good enough.

But maybe it's expecting too much for people to understand a 1960's attitude on a gut level when they weren't there to experience it personally. Simply reading about it doesn't count, because you just can't read it with the same perspective as those of us who were there. To turn one of your examples around, none of us ever felt deprived because the cars available to us generally didn't have power windows, and I'd have been ashamed of myself if I'd ever let myself feel that way.

Similarly it's damn near impossible for me to understand this total willingness to allow computers and high-tech solutions to invade virtually every facet of one's life. That there seems to be no end to how easy or how convenient everything absolutely has to be made, lest people be forced to exert a little physical effort.

Coming back to the nominal topic, why the up-level instrument panel wasn't made as large as would fit just doesn't make sense from either an appearance or convenience point of view.


Norm

 

[Strokerswild]

I would be happy to buy an Atom..... If only I could afford one.

Agreed, or better yet, a Nomad.

 

[chain]

Agreed, or better yet, a Nomad.

Yeah the new Nomad is bad ass.

Can't afford that either. :tsk:

 

[spectremotorsports]

Coming back to the nominal topic, why the up-level instrument panel wasn't made as large as would fit just doesn't make sense from either an appearance or convenience point of view.


Norm

I think this probably has to do with the fact that they wanted to add the screen but didnt want to retool the whole dash. Since it's optional i would assume its designed to fit in the exact same slot and the normal gauges

 

[RocketGuy3]

Similarly it's damn near impossible for me to understand this total willingness to allow computers and high-tech solutions to invade virtually every facet of one's life. That there seems to be no end to how easy or how convenient everything absolutely has to be made, lest people be forced to exert a little physical effort.

Incidentally, for me it's impossible to understand why someone would want to spend time doing a menial task that a computer can perform for them...

... I mean if you really enjoy taking your keys out of your pocket and turning them in the ignition, that's cool, I guess. But can you really not understand why that task has no appeal to some people? And why it would be preferable to let a computer do it if possible?

 

[Chad11491]

to be honest, i see the point of not liking all this tech in cars. Seriously, all this junk will break eventually, and it'll be $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ to replace. It reminds me of the 80's cars that had random tech thrown in to be impressive. It all broke eventually and is a major PITA to replace. While it is flashy and nice, and impressive to non-car people who ooo and ahhh over gadgetry, it doesn't really add anything to the car at all. Not saying i wouldn't take the tech, but i do slightly worry about all my electronic gizmo's giving out on the car in 5-10 years.

 

[dron_jones]

Incidentally, for me it's impossible to understand why someone would want to spend time doing a menial task that a computer can perform for them...

... I mean if you really enjoy taking your keys out of your pocket and turning them in the ignition, that's cool, I guess. But can you really not understand why that task has no appeal to some people? And why it would be preferable to let a computer do it if possible?

To be honest i feel as if it is a waste of breath. I honestly could care less if someone enjoys doing it, or if they feel its an un necessary technology, or if they wish cars were simpler, i get all of that. What frustrates me to no end with Norm is that he feels a certain way and because its not the same as the way things are going he writes off an entire population of people as "lazy", "disconnected", "video game drivers", or whatever other ignorant perception it is because someone doesn't share his same viewpoint. On this particular topic i am finished though. Apparently anyone didn't live through the 1960's is incapable of understanding any points that are being made so i'm out.

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