2015 Mustang Weight Gain

[HGFireHazard]

Problem is - a certain amount of weight gets added to the stock/base Mustang just to allow for the possibility of some of those options on higher trims or a better optioned car. These aren't just play and plug jammies.

This is fact. From wiring harnesses being routed that don't hook up to anything to brackets or supports or anything else. I feel for the Mustang enthusiast who wants a stripper car from the factory because it isn't as easy to do yourself.

Given that fewer than half of buyers are enthusiasts and we'll likely see that margin increase with the added trim and more mainstream buyers, I'm not sure your regular Joe buying this wlll be willing to pay 10% extra for the base model for a few hundred pounds lighter car (which probably makes very little difference to him going from point A to point B).

10% increase on the GT or halo car may go down better but I suspect a very marginal increase in the base and a 10% or more increase for performance models isn't quite the "winning investment" that Ford would hope for for that kind of platform development.

In the end engineering a lighter car will benefit all trims but the enthusiasts are the ones that really care and may be the ones left to foot most of the bill for it.

Weight loss is more than just a performance increase such as better cornering or faster acceleration or a higher top speed. The number of a cars weight, much more heavily focused upon by enthusiasts, is very much so important to the every day consumer. That directly translates into improved gas mileage which is an attractive thing to ALL buyers.

I imagine a lot of people who are looking at a V6 base model or a cool and fun convertible want to cruise around and not have it cost a ton. Now I'm not an expert by any stretch on all that is the CAFE standards, but if we're not looking at a lighter car now, what exactly are we going to be facing 5 years down the road as CAFE standards continue to ramp up?

Is the car being more aerodynamic (rumored) enough to keep up, assuming the continuance of the current motors? I can't say what may come but if the car doesn't weigh any less now, there are only so many things you can change to get better mileage.

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[Deroxas2.0]

I'm sure they can do a lot in aerodynamics and better airflow to make up for some lack of weight loss but putting on 1-200 pounds is going to be hard to overcome without increasing power output.

I've heard the figure thrown around before that 100lbs roughly equals 10-15hp but that also depends on the weight to power ratio. Since the engines and engine output will be mostly carryover from the 2014 it seems the weight to power ratio may get worse which of course doesn't help mileage.

 

[Callie]

I'm just afraid Ford is still stuck in the horsepower wars mentality where god forbid the next Mustang were to drop in power but have better (maybe less sexy) specs such as weight and more specifically power-to-weight.

We've all gotten so used to cars getting heavier with each year that we're desensitized to it and the Big 3 know this. But if they were to drop the power output it's the end of the world... people would riot. It just seems like Ford has figured that it's easier to explain away weight gain with the same reasons some people here are using (safety requirements, more equipment, global platforms etc) and just appease them with more horsepowers. But these are old ways of thinking now. It has to adapt and evolve, or die.

 

[8cyl]

Yep to some people, power is a static figure. You can't go below 420 hp in a V8 because it is less than the 2013-14 and that makes their balls shrivel up. Nevermind what the weight is.

I'll take 100lbs off over 10-15 extra HP any day.

 

[thePill]

All weight reduction calculations should be re-calculated using the Fusion's chassis. It may not be an S197 chassis.

I am working weights right now... If a 4 door Fusion was equipped with a 5.0 V8 and a Getrag, it's curb weight would be around 3650lbs. Now, size reduction will reduce weight however, if the GT comes standard with Track Pack and Boss type suspension upgrades/brakes/wheel and tires... That weight reduction from size could be gained back. The Stingray gains 150lbs from the Z51 package...

Basically, it looks like Boss 302 performance, at a Boss 302 weight at a Brembo pack GT MSRP.

 

[Overboost]

All weight reduction calculations should be re-calculated using the Fusion's chassis. It may not be an S197 chassis.

I am working weights right now... If a 4 door Fusion was equipped with a 5.0 V8 and a Getrag, it's curb weight would be around 3650lbs. Now, size reduction will reduce weight however, if the GT comes standard with Track Pack and Boss type suspension upgrades/brakes/wheel and tires... That weight reduction from size could be gained back. The Stingray gains 150lbs from the Z51 package...

Basically, it looks like Boss 302 performance, at a Boss 302 weight at a Brembo pack GT MSRP.

Here's the kicker: we don't know if the chassis could support the power of a V8 without modification. If not, who knows what kind if weight could be added to brace the chassis accordingly.

 

[crysalis_01]

Here's the kicker: we don't know if the chassis could support the power of a V8 without modification. If not, who knows what kind if weight could be added to brace the chassis accordingly.

Of course there will be modification. I dont believe anyone ever said this IS exactly the Fusion chassis. Just that S550 could very well be based off of CD4 and not S197.

 

[thePill]

Here's the kicker: we don't know if the chassis could support the power of a V8 without modification. If not, who knows what kind if weight could be added to brace the chassis accordingly.

I suspect another weight gain when the big boys come out, just like the 2007 model year. The weight could be taken out later sure...

Now that I have some details, I can work from that. It looks really, really close GT vs. GT. About 114lbs separate the V6 and V8 in current S197 form, about 320lbs from V6 to GT500. A V6/Eco4 S550 should weigh between 3500-3600lbs just swapping drivetrains from the base 2.5 NA 4 (not figuring in size reduction) A V8 Fusion (5.0) would gain the 114lbs BUT, it will lose the automatics extra 100lbs using the Getrag (close to 3600lbs without size figured in) Additional support for the extra 114lbs in front to support the V8 won't be as much as the 125lbs the 2007 GT took on to accommodate the iron block, SC, 5.4 that was about 400-500lbs heavier than the V6. Again, I can't figure in the weight lost in the chassis until Ford says something.

It's gonna be close!!!

Keep in mind, the Fusion has a 112 inch wheelbase, while the S197 carries a 107. A lot of weight is lost there... Maybe the 200lbs that was talked about (out of the CD4, NOT the S197 chassis)

Also keep in mind, a V8/Getrag Fusion would weigh almost exactly the same as a '14 S197 GT... However, I cannot assume that the same brakes, 215mm tires/wheels and suspension would be used. Major weight gain there.

I just could not calculate weight gain based on the S197 but, working from the CD4, I can see it more clearly.

Also, the Fusion uses NO Aluminum and very little Boron... It was the cheapest route they could take and it worked wonderfully...

Also, the SVT chassis could be produced similar to the convertibles... I mean, the SVT Mustang's could have unique upgrades to the chassis like the convertibles do. This would attach a premium, on top of the SVT price... similar to what a convertible experiences...

Your looking at a $61,000-$65,000 2017 GT500 BASE... With inflation and upgrades... that isn't too bad especially if it runs circles around the '13-'14's.

A $49,000 dollar 2007 GT500 in '06 would cost $56,000 in 2013... Seems about right.

 

[pistolpete]

I would think its easier to calculate teh weight based on the S197 since its already RWD architecture and there are a lot more knowns than the we can only speculate what a heavily modified CD4/CD4.3 would weigh. We know enough that there are enough changes for Ford to claim the two platforms are completely different platforms. That was a comment from Ford that I saw recevently.

But we just still dont know the extent of the overhaul- could be a combination of borrowing from some S197 parts, CD4.3, or clean slate design too. The extent of which we won't know until Ford lets out details so its impossible to predict weight with any degree of certainty unless I'm missing something.

 

[Oblivion/2]

Pill, Are you saying the weight loss goals Ford officially stated were talking about weight taken out of CD4 and not the 2015 mustang vehicle itself?? Come on, that is nonsense. If they dont reach it they dont reach it, it'll be because they failed these goals below or plans changed. We need to all stop making excuses for Ford on this if this happens.

“In the mid-term, from now to 2017 or 2018, we’ll remove anywhere from 250 to 700 pounds depending on the vehicle,” said Derrick Kuzak, Ford’s global product chief.


It’s possible to find ways to slice out weight in an existing product, noted Kuzak, during a dinner conversation, like switching from a steel body panel to one made of aluminum or plastic. But to make truly major gains, “Weight reduction starts with new platforms,” the overall redesign of a vehicle, he stressed.


100 pounds will roughly equal 1 MPG difference. Some are asking why it matters if they can still claim performance gains but MPG figures are increasingly becoming a key factor in purchases. To go backwards in that figure is not something Ford wants in this buying environment.

 

[Overboost]

If the car moves to a CD4 variant, then the question becomes - What's more important: saving money on platform costs or reducing weight? Perhaps one comes before the other?

 

[Beastie]

I would hope that before they decide on a CD4 variant for the Mustang the answer would be that both can be done otherwise I don't see the point. Platform sharing is supposed to be cheaper than developing and maintaining an altogether separate sports car platform just for the Mustang (and Lincoln rumors).

If it costs more money to do this AND it adds weight, I don't see why they wouldn't just evolve the S197. On the other hand, if the shared platform does save money, I would hope they "reinvest" it back and try to make it lighter.

 

[Overboost]

I would hope that before they decide on a CD4 variant for the Mustang the answer would be that both can be done otherwise I don't see the point. Platform sharing is supposed to be cheaper than developing and maintaining an altogether separate sports car platform just for the Mustang (and Lincoln rumors).

If it costs more money to do this AND it adds weight, I don't see why they wouldn't just evolve the S197. On the other hand, if the shared platform does save money, I would hope they "reinvest" it back and try to make it lighter.

Exactly. Going forward, you would assume (and hope) that the savings in development costs can be applied to reduced weight.

 

[MYs197]

Going forward only? If this makes sense then why would this not have happened at the platform development stage for the S550....

I'm confused why you would agree with his post and then say the 2015 is going to gain weight.

 

[Overboost]

Going forward only? If this makes sense then why would this not have happened at the platform development stage for the S550....

I'm confused why you would agree with his post and then say the 2015 is going to gain weight.

Because you can't effectively do both at the same time. You shoot for one, then shoot for the other in time. Just like the redesign in 2010 and new powertrains in 2011. Also, moving to a more common platform means more weight savings can be achieved with less R&D.

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