2015 Mustang GT PP vs. 2015 Chevrolet Camaro SS 1LE

[TakeMyMoneyFord]

guess we are gonna have to wait for the GT350 to see what Ford has up it's sleeve when it comes to the race track...

Sponsored

 

[JoeDogInKC]

http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php/1le-vs-gt-3701.html

 

[thePill]

The GT needs a real competition model, not a gimmicky "performance package". They need to push the GT.R idea from back in 2005. At least the car only weighs 3815lbs fully loaded without Recaro's. Recaro's will save you 90lbs and unloading that thing might save you another 50-70lbs. Don't get a Premium like MT did, it just adds 70-80lbs in for the sound systems and speakers/plush interior pieces (I guess). It's safe to say that 3815lbs is as heavy as a GT will come, a Base GTPP should be close to 200lbs less than that... Hopefully the spare tire wasn't equipped... The 1LE is as close to a competition Camaro as you can get, a loaded Premium GTPP says "I need a $45,000 GT" and don't really care about anything but options... which is good. I would think an FE4 SS would be right where the GTPP is, both are packages.

Magazine wins are good and fine but I usually turn to SCCA T2 for real 1LE results... Again, it didn't do well this year... raped by 2005-2014 GT's and Corvettes.

Also, the 1:24 is beginning to exceed the GT500 and Boss 302's Willow times. It's definitely a better handling car for less...

Until the 1LE threatens Ford in T2, I don't expect any competition GT's to be homologated... Simply put, one just isn't needed. Other than that, its just more media input the way the sponsor tells them to input it. This is the same media that once ran off the track in a 2010 SS at Willow and never told the public about it until the 5th Gens handling was fixed in the z28. I think I'll just be my own judge and not rely on a magazine to tell me the results, even though those results won't be skewed by a recent "Best Drivers Car" award right? Doubt it... I only imagine Chevy gave them the car.

Looking at the 2015 Performance Package (and even the standard equipment), it is apparent that the GT caters to the SCCA set of rules. Both equipment sets cater to the class maximum as far as brakes and tires go. The PP package takes those measurements up to the waiverable limit. In other words, the S197 (as in, 2005 to 2014) are dominating SCCA T2. If the GT is pushed even further, it may force the SCCA to strap on some weight to the S550 or, restrict it in some way. As it stands now, the GT will be both T2 AND T1 competitive.

Now, why is the 1LE so much faster in magazines but fails on a seasonal basis to even remotely challenge a 3V 4.6 2005 Mustang GT in T2? It is a strange occurrence indeed... The only constant in this hiccup would be that it is ALWAYS a magazine test that shows a Camaro doing incredible things... Then, once in the wild, it is devoured at each end.

 

[Trackaholic]

For the folks complaining and only looking at the 1.5 second loss around the track, did you even hear the comments made by Randy about the car and how it drives, the engine, shifter, brakes, etc? Just curious...I know a couple of you have as you have shared comments but most of the unhappy folks only look at the track time.

I realize this thread has grown quickly and possibly your post has already been addressed, but as one of the people who was disappointed, let me say that the biggest factor was not the lap time, but rather that both Randy and Carlos said that the 1LE was a more fun car on the road and on the track.

Yes, the 2015 Mustang is much better than the 2014 Mustang. The problem is that the 2015 is still worse than the 2014 Camaro 1LE in terms of driving fun. Talk about damning with faint praise. When Carlos says the Mustang is the better car to sit in, while the Camaro is the better car to drive I think that speaks volumes, unfortunately.

-T

 

[Trackaholic]

Nope people only care about one time around pne short track the 9000 other positives are ignored

I think you need to go back a view the review again. All you have done is make fun of people who have been disappointed in the performance of the Mustang in this review, yet it clearly lost the comparison. The problem is that the 9000 positives are only with respect to the outgoing Mustang, and not to the Camaro 1LE, which is a much better car (according to this review). And keep in mind that it is a better car because it is more fun, not because it is faster (this is also mentioned in the review).

Of course I do admit that we all expect/hope for different things from the car. Even though I like the idea of the 1LE, I wouldn't buy one because I don't like the way the engine feels, I don't like the interior, and I don't like the sight lines. I was really hoping the GT+PP would be the Boss 302 replacement, but clearly that isn't what Ford was aiming for.

So, it is OK for us to be disappointed that this isn't the car we were hoping for, and it is OK for others to be perfectly happy with it because it is exactly the car they were looking for. I do think it will sell very well even though it isn't exactly what I want.

-T

 

[Voodoo]

Has anyone else ever noticed that all the car comparisons so far this year and late last year between a GM product and other manufacturers, the GM products has won pretty much everything?

2015 mustang vs camaro 1le= Camaro (GM)
Nissan GTR vs Camaro Z28 = Camaro (GM)
2014 Motor Trend Best Driver's Car = Camaro (GM)
2014 Motor Trend Car of the Year = Caddillac (GM)
2014 Cadillac CTS Vsport vs 2013 Lexus GS350 F Sport = Cadillac (GM)

It's either GM has building some really amazing cars, or some people should start considering changing their company name to GMTREND.

 

[minicobra]

guess we are gonna have to wait for the GT350 to see what Ford has up it's sleeve when it comes to the race track...

Looks like Dave P. failed with the PP when they were benchmarking it against an old M3 and a Porsche. They should've been testing it against the 1LE, maybe they forgot that the Camaro is it's natural competitor :rant:
50 years guys!! and still can't top the previous gens competitions.

Oh well, maybe the GT350 will outperform the 1LE around a track, but based on this H to H, they probably will run the 350 with a Z/28, and will end up with the same results.
Good thing there is an aftermarket!!!


With that said, I'm still getting the Mustang, for a number of reasons, but looks like I have to upgrade shocks, springs, wheels and tires if I want to beat a stock 1LE around a track. .

 

[thePill]

Almost any car and be made to be quicker with mods. It's about starting point. It's about living up to the hype and lofty goals ( M3 etc ) that Ford was tossing out there. It came in pig heavy and slower than a damn Camaro. Freaking under sprung and under dampened AGAIN. On the PP no less. Those engineers or execs that call the shots must be pansies when it comes performance suspension tolerance.

Oh and yes I do track my car, frequently.

Are you suggesting the Zeta is a good starting point? Oh good lord... The Zeta is something even mods cant fix.

Real race results prove that the 1LE is garbage... for 4 consecutive seasons... Yet it is the most over praised, under achieving Pony Car of all time. Never has such a "Drivers Car" never won a single race in any organized motorsport function, EVER and was still considered a drivers car. (While the previous GT has a Championship) But if Motor Trend says it is... it must be so.

...and so on and off the lemmings go...

I know most competitive racing eludes Camaro people but, there is really not much room for improvement for the GT in T2. Ford specifically sanctions the GT in T2 (maybe T1 this year as good as it's running so far) and if the GT gets any faster, it will be the end of the GT in T2.

also, this "Pig Heavy" Mustang is a loaded, Premium GTPP with 6 Way Adjustable Heated/Cooled Seats equipped. Comparing the heaviest "Pig" Mustang to the Camaro's lightest "Pig" is an odd win. Don't hold your breath for a lighter 6th Gen either, weight gain is running wild and I doubt they have the $$$ to make it happen.

 

[thePill]

Has anyone else ever noticed that all the car comparisons so far this year and late last year between a GM product and other manufacturers, the GM products has won pretty much everything?

2015 mustang vs camaro 1le= Camaro (GM)
Nissan GTR vs Camaro Z28 = Camaro (GM)
2014 Motor Trend Best Driver's Car = Camaro (GM)
2014 Motor Trend Car of the Year = Caddillac (GM)
2014 Cadillac CTS Vsport vs 2013 Lexus GS350 F Sport = Cadillac (GM)

It's either GM has building some really amazing cars, or some people should start considering changing their company name to GMTREND.

General Motors currently dominates Motor Trend and Automobile Magazines ad space, it is not a coincidence... It happens almost every year.

 

[Falc'man]

My suspicion of bias is confirmed - I just remembered something from the video.

When they're talking about the GT on the track they mention how it's "too hard" for the road but too soft for the track. But then Randy goes on to say the 1LE has even harder suspension which is why it's better on the track... and... that is what you want for the road.

Make up your mind Randy.

 

[Falc'man]

Has anyone else ever noticed that all the car comparisons so far this year and late last year between a GM product and other manufacturers, the GM products has won pretty much everything?

2015 mustang vs camaro 1le= Camaro (GM)
Nissan GTR vs Camaro Z28 = Camaro (GM)
2014 Motor Trend Best Driver's Car = Camaro (GM)
2014 Motor Trend Car of the Year = Caddillac (GM)
2014 Cadillac CTS Vsport vs 2013 Lexus GS350 F Sport = Cadillac (GM)

It's either GM has building some really amazing cars, or some people should start considering changing their company name to GMTREND.

Thanks.

 

[thePill]

My suspicion of bias is confirmed - I just remembered something from the video.

When they're talking about the GT on the track they mention how it's "too hard" for the road but too soft for the track. But then Randy goes on to say the 1LE has even harder suspension which is why it's better on the track... and... that is what you want for the road.

Make up your mind Randy.

It wouldn't matter if the GT was faster, they would just air the tires down until it could produce a better time. Or run it over and over and over in optimal conditions until they get a better time.

Or, just claim they ran a faster time but didn't have a camera running to capture it...

If people would just use competitive racing as a yard stick to measure a vehicles performance, we wouldn't be talking about a 1LE at all. Nor a Camaro for that matter... Today's racing is done more in a comic book style, monthly issue... with no real evidence or effort to remain unbiased. It all comes down to whos buying up add space. That's who is going to win "Car of the Year", Drivers Car of the Year", Motor Trend Car of the Year"...

 

[Seabee1973]

Looks like Dave P. failed with the PP when they were benchmarking it against an old M3 and a Porsche. They should've been testing it against the 1LE, maybe they forgot that the Camaro is it's natural competitor :rant:
50 years guys!! and still can't top the previous gens competitions.

Oh well, maybe the GT350 will outperform the 1LE around a track, but based on this H to H, they probably will run the 350 with a Z/28, and will end up with the same results.
Good thing there is an aftermarket!!!


With that said, I'm still getting the Mustang, for a number of reasons, but looks like I have to upgrade shocks, springs, wheels and tires if I want to beat a stock 1LE around a track. .

For the record, a regular mustang gt is just that even with the pp.... 1le is a high output version of the camaro so if you think about it.. there really is not that much to be comparing... now if they came out with the gt350 or other high output performance versions then and only then can you really get a comparison... so this is basically an unfair comparison

 

[Falc'man]

I did enjoy watching those two going hard. The 1LE did look more settled. As people here have rightly mentioned, all it would take is a retune of the suspension and the perceived problem is solved.

But it isn't a problem, not the way I see it. Ford's definition of PP is something you can live with. End of story.

We have the same perceived problem in Australia: the Zeta Commodores are lauded as superior track weapons to the Falcon, but lo and behold, they never mention how superior the Falcon's ride quality is.

Drive them both back to back and the Falcon is superior in nearly every way by quite a margin, except when you're on a track pedaling at ten tenths. And the Falcon still manages faster times. Lol.

Seriously folks, dis MT before dissing Ford - they've given you a brilliant ROAD car with very respectable performance.

 

[minicobra]

I can safely say that I'm going to enjoy the heck out of my beautiful exterior, beautiful interior, much improved over previous generation 2015 Mustang GT/PP!!!

Although I highly respect the opinion of Randy and Carlos, I'm not going to let 1 review be the end all of all reviews. Pretty much every other mag that has reviewed this car has had nothing but praise to say about it.

Ford has not failed with this generation, what they failed with is not giving the performance package, stiffer springs, better dampers and massive rubber like the 1LE.

I know people are comparing stock to stock here, but I modify every car I've ever owned, and it isn't going to stop with this GT/PP.
I firmly believe that with some small mods to the suspension and big fat tires like the 1LE, this car will surpase that 1.5 second gap, no problem, and it will look a 1000 times better doing it. (although subjective)
And as far as the engine note is concerned, how many of you keep your stock exhaust on your cars? I've never, so that's and easy fix.

Look at all the reviews as a whole guys, not just this one. And if track time at Willow Springs is super important to you making your decision on your next car, then maybe you should buy a used 2010 GT500 with a live axel, because it was faster then the 2015 GT around that track.

My current 2012 GT500 with my current mods will smoke the 2015 around Willow. Problem is, the thing is a handful to drive, it's rough and unrefined, and makes for a horrible street car, but it's fast.

Here is the bottom line, and I don't deny it either, we all want to drive a car that is perceived by our piers as the best car out there. It's good for our ego, bragging rights, etc. In reality, the performance gap between the 1LE and S550/PP is not that huge. We are talking one track comparison.
Are you going to drive your car all out, like this every single day?
I drive mine to work, 20 miles each way, and I make, let's see, 4 turns.

4 turns. (Maybe I better get the 1LE for that) :doh:

Yes, I will take it in the canyon or to the track a few times a year, but 90% of the time I'm on the street. This is who they are targeting, and because of that Ford will sell a ton of these cars.

Mark my words, when the dust settles with the 2015 Mustang, because of the better interior, nicer looking exterior,(subjective, but not just my opinion) and all the refinements over previous generations, including most of it's competitors. This will be car of the year, and not one, but probably several magazines.

And if not, I don't care, I usually sell my car within 2-3 years anyway, so to everyone that is not buying the 2015 Mustang because of one review, sorry, I'll sure be enjoying mine!.

Sponsored