2015-2016 Tech Pack and Base GT350 Cooler Solution Discussion

Discussion in 'Shelby GT350 Mustang' started by likeaboss, Jun 4, 2016.

  1. seth21w

    seth21w Well-Known Member

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    But has anyone actually seen heat destroy a manual that had proper fluid level and viscosity? Because i have put a tr3550 through some pretty grueling track time with 637 hp 680tq in my old 95 gt. Never a heat problem with it.
     
  2. Epiphany

    Epiphany Well-Known Member

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    I've got a TR3550 behind a well done 302 in my '90 coupe but I'm nowhere near the power levels you are running. Were you to swap your 3550 for the 3160 and then run it at 8,250 rpm on a road course for numerous sessions I assure you that it would have difficulty. Your '95 isn't seeing continuous rpm's at nearly as high of a threshold as the 3160 sees in a GT350.
     
  3. GRTWHT

    GRTWHT Well-Known Member

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    The pace car goes only 65mph.
     
  4. Hack

    Hack Well-Known Member

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    Obviously I don't agree. Any part that is subject to acceleration and vibration will move, and so it will be subject to stresses. The stresses are concentrated in certain areas (just looking at the design I think some of the welded areas will be under the highest stress). I would have to run FEA to really know.

    I personally am not comfortable with aluminum for this use, especially with the welded areas I see. Were Ford's brackets made from aluminum? Ask yourself why. For a race car you could get away with this, because you have a team of people inspecting everything after each race. I wouldn't put it on my street car.

    I'm not sure. I assume that the transmission fluid viscosity and film strength will change when the temperature increases. I think the friction material on the blocker rings in some transmissions doesn't like excessive heat, either. I don't know whether there are any tolerance issues due to temperature changes or not. I agree it's unusual for there to be any heat issues with a manual transmission. I've never even heard of the problem with any car in the past. However, I know that Ford does a lot of life and reliability testing and I trust that they wouldn't add in a limp mode to the car unless it was really needed to prevent failure.
     
  5. Epiphany

    Epiphany Well-Known Member

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    Run the FEA.

    You were asking whether "the welds or brackets failing due to flexing/vibration over time." The area it fastens to isn't subject to abnormal amounts of deflection or vibration whether on a GT350, a Pinto, or 1 ton truck.

    Regarding material choice, Ford can produce a steel stamping for less money than a cast or extruded aluminum piece. That's the bottom line.
     
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  6. Minn19

    Minn19 Well-Known Member

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    Do you mind sharing what they charged you for parts and labor?
     
  7. xXANCHORMONXx

    xXANCHORMONXx Well-Known Member

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    I agree. I can't count how many trans and oil cooler brackets I've made over the years. I've never had an issue.

    You can search various other forums such as 370z, Evo and BMW forums. Brackets are almost always made out of aluminum.
     
  8. Hack

    Hack Well-Known Member

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    The bottom line for me is that Ford can produce an aluminum stamping as easily as a steel one, if they so choose. Yes it would cost a few pennies more, and that could be a reason why they didn't. I do understand that parts like wheels are made from aluminum and take significant loads.

    However, I wouldn't use a welded aluminum bracket on a Pinto either. If the snow plow I purchased for my F-250 used aluminum brackets I would have been suspicious of them as well. But it doesn't. It uses steel, which IMO is a much better choice for a structural component if you don't have access to modern design tools or frankly even if you do. I could easily run the FEA if I knew the part geometry, materials, weld penetration/composition and loading, but I don't have any of that. I will have to depend on "common sense".
     
  9. Voodooo

    Voodooo Banned

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    All due respect, the fluid in the cooler also acts as a stress reliever for vibration. Some people argue about the aluminum weld and it cracking, but coming from a family owned body shop business and a mechanic and journeyman tool and die maker, you'd be surprised how many body panels that are glued on today's vehicles. Not to mention trans coolers that are held in place by zip ties through the cooling radiator that hold up fine on a normal street vehicle. As long as the weld is done correctly it won't fail. People put all their trust in engineers when they see it fit, but when they see something they don't agree with they argue or question it. Why are short bridges flat and expansion bridges arched. Get my point?
    Comparing a aluminum snow plow bracket to a trans cooler mount is not the same. That snow blow is going to get the shit beat out of it.
    People trust steel and carbon fiber? Two totally different materials and yet both are strong
     
  10. Epiphany

    Epiphany Well-Known Member

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    #2005 Epiphany, Nov 20, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2016
    Hack, come on, an analogy comparing the brackets for a static cooler to those of a snow plow on an F250....holy apples to oranges Batman - that just isn't fair.

    A more reasonable component (IMHO) to compare would be that of an aluminum crossmember vs a steel one, especially on this car. The weight of an all steel unit has a strong influence in the cost to benefit analysis and on the S550 (as was the S197) it made sense to gear of to use an aluminum casting vs a heavier, potentially less expensive steel counterpart. The GT350 is a vibration monster that Ford engineers were somehow able to tame. Thirteen pounds of weight was added to the rear/underside of the TR3160 transmission, right at the crossmember. Yet it is a very thin, lightweighted casting. I've studied it closely and drawn it in cad for a project I worked on last year.



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    It is an extremely light weight piece that sees all kinds of "acceleration."

    Part of your argument mentioned the welds and I would agree that there is some validity to that. The piece is only as good as the weakest portion of the weld. And we are assuming that the HAZ (heat affected zone) wasn't overworked, making the piece overly brittle and prone to fatigue. I welded in industry for a number of years (arc/mig) and use tig in my shop. So I noted the beads I see, and while it may be a leap without the ability to inspect them, they look to be consistent and with a favorable bead pattern such that they wouldn't be the primary reason (for me anyway) to reject the overall structure. I'm assuming for sake of argument that the welds have the proper penetration and are where they need to be.

    The individual that made the brackets did a good job and clearly has some insight as to how to do this. I'm sure the car they installed them on will be put to good use and we can revisit this one to see how the system performed.
     
  11. Voodooo

    Voodooo Banned

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    Don't Drop that trans mount, if you do its scrap lol.

    I agree, I don't know where aluminum cooler brackets vs F250 snow plow compete.
     
  12. Hack

    Hack Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for posting the photos of the cross member. Very cool piece and obviously highly optimized and thoughtfully engineered as are most factory parts on any automobile.

    I don't want to beat this to death, so I will say that I don't disagree that the work on the cooler bracket looks like the fabricator was highly competent.
     
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  13. Hack

    Hack Well-Known Member

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    Bumping this thread up - not because I have any news, but because I've been wondering whether the recall on the engine cooler lines might have anything to do with the slow response on this from Ford Performance.

    I would assume that the crimps and materials used on the engine oil cooler lines are similar/the same as those on the transmission cooler? Can anyone with a track pack/R/2017 confirm?
     
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  14. choice

    choice Active Member

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    Shelby GT350 Transmission Cooler Scoop - Installed and Tested

    Finally had time today to install and test the Shelby tranny cooler scoop. It took longer to lift the car than it did to install the scoop! As requested, I did some before and after testing. I decided to do a timed test and logged the temps each 10 degrees while keeping everything the same. I got right on the freeway with minimal traffic and cruised in 5th gear at 70 mph. (You guys know how hard it is to set cruise at 70, right?) Here are my results:

    Ambient temp was 75 for both runs.

    Before Scoop: Tranny temp 75.
    3:15 90
    5:05 100
    6:55 110
    8:34 120
    11:05 130
    13:50 140
    17:40 150
    22:50 160
    29:30 170
    35:20 180

    With Scoop: Tranny temp 81 (I couldn't wait any longer for the heat soaked bitch to cool down even with 2 fans blowing on it!)
    4:00 90
    6:15 100
    8:20 110
    10:15 120
    13:32 130
    17:45 140
    26:20 150
    35:20 158

    So same total time, same speed, same gear, same traffic, same route, and even starting at a higher tranny temp I got no higher than 158. Now I'm sure if I pushed I could get it much higher, but this was strictly a test situation.

    The Cooler Scoop does help for sure and I'm eager to get the other cooling bits that Shelby didn't hide in the pics online. I'll just leave this here and let everyone pick apart my testing method...

    Shelby - If you are watching, I welcome you to send the other cooling parts my way and I'll be happy to test it out for you!

    - Bill

    Pics of scoop and install... IMG_0394.jpg IMG_0397.jpg IMG_0398.jpg IMG_0399.jpg
     
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  15. Voodooo

    Voodooo Banned

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    Thanks you your hard work and time Bill

    I know people are gonna say it'll be different on the track than the street and that's fine to say. But the point is, it works and definitely helps lower temps!
    I have a Track pack and I'm considering one of these. But I also have the shop equipment to make this myself but for the cost it's not worth my time to make it. Is this steel or aluminum? If it's steel I'm making my own from aluminum.
     
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