'

[millhouse]

Why can you not make a point without insulting someone? Answer me that?

And to make your point, your quote a post of mine with no insult? Really?

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[02gtnh]

Agreed. Quite frankly, I'm surprised it doesn't. All of you would be all over Fords shit had it not been included on the GT500...and if the brakes where prone to fade.

Edit:
That poses a real question. I wonder if the fluid was indeed DOT 4? I'm sure GM supplied there vehicles for track testing fully adjusted for track duty...including fluids.

I think companies are getting theses cars more and more setup for track. The 1le came in 17 with DOT3, I

Come on now, you don't really believe that do you? If that's the case, you should have no problem with the GTPP2 having some issues with overheating...right? After all, it only happens when it's really hot...and only after 15 minutes of hot lapping.

The point I was making, if you want to track your car, the brake fluid will need to be changed no mater the car. Even the gt500 with dot4 will need better fluid then stock. Even gt350 guys change there fluid and they have dot4.

 

[millhouse]

I think companies are getting theses cars more and more setup for track. The 1le came in 17 with DOT3, I


The point I was making, if you want to track your car, the brake fluid will need to be changed no mater the car. Even the gt500 with dot4 will need better fluid then stock. Even gt350 guys change there fluid and they have dot4.

That doesn't take away from the fact that the ZL1 1LE experienced brake fade after just 5 laps. And again, I would have expected the fluids to be "track ready" from GM.

Do you yourself see the benefits of running larger rotors and pads...and understand it doesn't lie in stopping distance but brake fade?

A reminder, this whole line of rhetoric came from an individual who didn't understand this, and thought the GT500 simply had larger rotors and pads because it needs it to stop within a specified distance.

 

[02gtnh]

That doesn't take away from the fact that the ZL1 1LE experienced brake fade after just 5 laps. And again, I would have expected the fluids to be "track ready" from GM.

Do you yourself see the benefits of running larger rotors and pads...and understand it doesn't lie in stopping distance but brake fade?

A reminder, this whole line of rhetoric came from an individual who didn't understand this, and thought the GT500 simply had larger rotors and pads because it needs it to stop within a specified distance.

I have no ide what fluid was in there 2017 test, so I’m not going to speculate if it did or didn’t have dot4. But there have been many reviews of the 1le, and don’t recall any complaints about the brakes. If this was done on all reviews, then I would be concerned.

Larger brakes have two demands, stop the car and stay as cool as they can while doing it. But there is also a reason for large brakes also, and that is weight. So to stop a heavy car in a short distance and keep cool needs large brakes.

 

[millhouse]

I have no ide what fluid was in there 2017 test, so I’m not going to speculate if it did or didn’t have dot4. Larger brakes have two demands, stop the car and stay as cool as they can while doing it. But there is also a reason for large brakes also, and that is weight. So to stop a heavy car in a short distance and keep cool needs large brakes.

No, stopping a larger car doesn't necessarily require larger brakes. You could throw the GT's brakes on the GT500 and it would stop it once in the same distance as the giant brembos.

There is one reason the GT500's brakes are so large, it's to shed heat.

I'll post this one more time as the perfect example.

https://www.caranddriver.com/review...ck-level-2-vs-2019-ford-mustang-shelby-gt350/

Note the GTPP2 has smaller brakes and weighs more than the GT350...yet stops in a shorter distance (hello tires). Which one do you think is better suited for track duty, the smaller brakes on the GT or the larger brakes on the GT350?

As for concerns, folks that track the ZLE seem to notice the fade themselves, so they swap fluid and pads to fix the issue.

 

[02gtnh]

No, stopping a larger car doesn't necessarily require larger brakes. You could throw the GT's brakes on the GT500 and it would stop it once in the same distance as the giant brembos.

There is one reason the GT500's brakes are so large, it's to shed heat.

I'll post this one more time as the perfect example.

https://www.caranddriver.com/review...ck-level-2-vs-2019-ford-mustang-shelby-gt350/

Note the GTPP2 has smaller brakes and weighs more than the GT350...yet stops in a shorter distance (hello tires). Which one do you think is better suited for track duty, the smaller brakes on the GT or the larger brakes on the GT350?

As for concerns, folks that track the ZLE seem to notice the fade themselves, so they swap fluid and pads to fix the issue.

There weights are identical, but the PP2 has wider front tires, so I would guess that had a lot to do with stopping also. But like I said, to stop a heavy car in a short distance and keep cool, larger brakes are needed. The PP2 stop the car, but the gt350 brakes would stay cooler being they weigh the same. Add 400 more lbs like the gt500 to stay cool and stop will need larger brakes.

 

[millhouse]

There weights are identical, but the PP2 has wider front tires, so I would guess that had a lot to do with stopping also. But like I said, to stop a heavy car in a short distance and keep cool, larger brakes are needed. The PP2 stop the car, but the gt350 brakes would stay cooler being they weigh the same. Add 400 more lbs like the gt500 to stay cool and stop will need larger brakes.

At least you’re talking common sense. To add to that, the gt500s larger brakes also allow for extended braking required when traveling at higher speeds.

 

[JohnnyUtah]

Randy specifically mentioned the pedal got long on the 500. He had them bleed the fluid. These are the same words that were used in the ZLE review that you are harping on. Long pedal.

Except, he didn't. He just didn't like the feel. You have to know the difference, right?

Um, yeah, that's actually exactly what he said:
Although the big Shelby could dive deep, deep into the tight corners VIR presents at the culmination of its long straights, it was here I could find my only real complaint: a bit of a long brake pedal, which was a little disconcerting at 170 mph. No fade but some squish. They even bled the brakes for me, yet both test Shelbys felt spongy.

Spin it however want but both articles used the same description. You have to admit that. It is directly in the article.

A long pedal is scary when you're at high speeds. I've experienced this first hand and immediately slowed my pace.

Bleeding brakes at the track is something that I don't see people do often, so it must have been a pretty unsettling circumstance to have them do so. I guess if there's a whole crew there to work on the car then why not do it?

Btw I'm really glad that they put Dot 4 in the 500 as it is safer for everyone including others at a track event. I'd hate to see some dipshit put his brand new car into the wall (or my bumper) over some $20 fluid.

Hopefully this will become a norm, but not all Dot 4 is equal. For example Motul makes various grades with different boiling points... and prices. It's very plausible that it isn't up to the task of a pro driver. I'm sure most of us would be fine with it, but confidence is important when you're trying to push at 10/10ths. Though I'd actually be very suspect of stock brake lines becoming squishy under the conditions.

 

[millhouse]

Um, yeah, that's actually exactly what he said:
Although the big Shelby could dive deep, deep into the tight corners VIR presents at the culmination of its long straights, it was here I could find my only real complaint: a bit of a long brake pedal, which was a little disconcerting at 170 mph. No fade but some squish. They even bled the brakes for me, yet both test Shelbys felt spongy.

Spin it however want but both articles used the same description. You have to admit that. It is directly in the article.

Come on now, cut the BS. One article mentions the inability to turn more than 5 laps due to the brake pedal changing and becoming long. That's fade, no if's and's or butts. It was so bad they deemed it unsafe to continue.

The other article mentions how the brake feels right out of the box. Not brake fade. They even specifically mention that there is no fade. And of course, it does not prevent them from turning lap after lap. Randy just doesn't like how it felt. They bitched the 350R was too firm, and now bitch the 500 is too soft.

One is fade, the other is feel.

If you can't admit this, you are as much as a troll as Ol' Roy.

For me, as long as the pedal is consistent and predictable, I'm OK with it. A pedal that changes feel from lap to lap, not so much.

 

[Hack]

So your saying the zl1 1le tires are better then the special made cup 2 on the 500?

Braking distance when you aren't on a track stopping over and over getting heat in the brakes is from tires. Better tire grip means shorter stopping distance. I have no idea why the ZL1 1LE stops a little quicker, maybe it was warmer the day the ZL1 1LE was tested, or the road was cleaner. Or those ultra-stiff shocks keep the tires on the road better. Could be a million things, but typically a car with stickier tires will stop in a shorter distance. That's probably the most likely thing. The ZL1 1LE tires are softer.

You could look at the skidpad G forces comparison as well. That's usually a function of tires and it would help you determine why the numbers are what they are.

 

[millhouse]

Braking distance when you aren't on a track stopping over and over getting heat in the brakes is from tires. Better tire grip means shorter stopping distance. I have no idea why the ZL1 1LE stops a little quicker, maybe it was warmer the day the ZL1 1LE was tested, or the road was cleaner. Or those ultra-stiff shocks keep the tires on the road better. Could be a million things, but typically a car with stickier tires will stop in a shorter distance. That's probably the most likely thing. The ZL1 1LE tires are softer.

You could look at the skidpad G forces comparison as well. That's usually a function of tires and it would help you determine why the numbers are what they are.

Goodyears promo does claim that the Supercar 3R tires outperform both the sport cup 2 and the Trofeo R tires.

 

[JohnnyUtah]

Come on now, cut the BS. One article mentions the inability to turn more than 5 laps due to the brake pedal changing and becoming long. That's fade, no if's and's or butts. It was so bad they deemed it unsafe to continue.

The other article mentions how the brake feels right out of the box. Not brake fade. They even specifically mention that there is no fade. And of course, it does not prevent them from turning lap after lap. Randy just doesn't like how it felt. They bitched the 350R was too firm, and now bitch the 500 is too soft.

One is fade, the other is feel.

If you can't admit this, you are as much as a troll as Ol' Roy.

For me, as long as the pedal is consistent and predictable, I'm OK with it. A pedal that changes feel from lap to lap, not so much.

I dont agree with this assesment. The way I read it, the reason it was "disconcerting" was because the pedal became long. Otherwise there is no reason to be concerned. I dont get the comment if that's not the case.

Here is Randy's assesment of the ZLE brakes from a different test. Sound familiar?
The car generated a tremendous amount of braking force, but for the first time in any high-performance Camaro, it had a long pedal. I was pumping it a little bit, and I remember going up that Corkscrew thinking, 'Jesus and Heaven above, let these work.' And boy did they work. It stopped so well. It was very, very pleasing and satisfying how late I could brake in this—what is a relatively heavy car.

 

[millhouse]

I dont agree with this assesment. The way I read it, the reason it was "disconcerting" was because the pedal became long. Otherwise there is no reason to be concerned. I dont get the comment if that's not the case.

Here is Randy's assesment of the ZLE brakes from a different test. Sound familiar?
The car generated a tremendous amount of braking force, but for the first time in any high-performance Camaro, it had a long pedal. I was pumping it a little bit, and I remember going up that Corkscrew thinking, 'Jesus and Heaven above, let these work.' And boy did they work. It stopped so well. It was very, very pleasing and satisfying how late I could brake in this—what is a relatively heavy car.

What's not to agree with? Car and driver experienced brake fade. They were unable to complete more than 5 laps due to it.

One car had a brake pedal that was squishy from the onset. From lap 1 to lap 100. Consistent, predictable, but maybe not the best feel. It was specifically mentioned that there was no fade.

The other car experienced brake fade that caused the vehicle to be unable to driven for more than 5 laps.

Again, these aren't debatable items. It's what happened. If you don't agree with it, then you are delusional.

Arguing brake fluids or why the GT500 had a squishy feel doesn't change this, nor does quoting an article from a different publication.

 

[roygriffin2020]

I dont agree with this assesment. The way I read it, the reason it was "disconcerting" was because the pedal became long. Otherwise there is no reason to be concerned. I dont get the comment if that's not the case.

Here is Randy's assesment of the ZLE brakes from a different test. Sound familiar?
The car generated a tremendous amount of braking force, but for the first time in any high-performance Camaro, it had a long pedal. I was pumping it a little bit, and I remember going up that Corkscrew thinking, 'Jesus and Heaven above, let these work.' And boy did they work. It stopped so well. It was very, very pleasing and satisfying how late I could brake in this—what is a relatively heavy car.

Johnny

Now now, you don't know the rules of this thread. You must agree with everything TrollHouse says or you are a troll, or stupid, or delusional. It also hurts his feelings. Even when you post facts, and TrollHouse does not agree, then you are a troll. You simply have to give in to TrollHouse. He knows all.

 

[Hack]

What's not to agree with? Car and driver experienced brake fade. They were unable to complete more than 5 laps due to it.

One car had a brake pedal that was squishy from the onset. From lap 1 to lap 100. Consistent, predictable, but maybe not the best feel. It was specifically mentioned that there was no fade.

The other car experienced brake fade that caused the vehicle to be unable to driven for more than 5 laps.

Again, these aren't debatable items. It's what happened. If you don't agree with it, then you are delusional.

Arguing brake fluids or why the GT500 had a squishy feel doesn't change this, nor does quoting an article from a different publication.

It's clear that the brakes on the ZL1 1LE aren't as good as those on the GT500 (or the GT350). Upgrading the fluid will help, but your brakes are still going to be running extremely high temperatures. This probably also means pad life will be shortened.

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