Ford previews 4-door Mustang hybrid sedan (Mach-4) to dealers

[2020 MagneticPP1]

A Mustang Dark Horse is about 3,950lbs right now

We're going to make it bigger and heavier? Add AWD and hybrid capabilities?

What does the 'boat' Dodge Charger Scat Pack weight? 4,380lbs

Do Mustang owners really want anything that comes near that size and weight? Going to say no.

I would say yes.....most Mustang guys who are looking for a 4 door car, look towards the Charger, and also the SS/G8 when they were around. You don't think they would be interested in a 4 door car from a brand they know, with an engine they know?? Unfortunately cars just keep getting bigger and heavier.

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[SBR70.3]

Look, regarding the weight of the car, all cars made today are heavy AF. Thanks Uncle Sam for making so many damn useless safety features required. This car will be >4k lbs. Probably 4,200-4,300 lbs.

I HIGHLY doubt any 4 door Mach4 buyers will be taking this car to the track. I have seen 2, maybe 3 Chargers on track. Ya, they all sucked. Now, slap a Procharger on it and bet your ass I will be flooring it merging on the highway. With that said, if I were to buy one I will take it on track at least once to find the limits.

Don't worry kids, the 2 door Mustang will still be made.

Do you know who will love buying this car? The police and highway patrol.

 

[RocketGuy3]

here's the simplest way to explain my POV: ford wants to leverage mustang clout because they can't build a car that can stand on its own which is why it is almost certainly already doomed... because name alone only sells to retards and most people just aren't that stupid or just want value more than a name.

BTW the cadillac is absolutely heavier than the camaro.

Yeah, so you're assuming negative things about the car because of the name, which ultimately means you don't like the name.

Also for all intents and purposes, they weigh the same. The difference is about ~100 lbs. That is ~2.5%, or less than the weight of a single adult passenger. When you consider the luxury equipment, sound deadening, and extra practicality of a usable back seat, that is absolutely nothing.

If the sedan weighs any meaningful amount more than the coupe, you may have a reasonable complaint... but what's the alternative if you want a fun family hauler? An even bigger CUV with a turbo 4-cylinder?

 

[Oakley]

Yeah, so you're assuming negative things about the car because of the name, which ultimately means you don't like the name.

Im explaining why they think they need the name.

Ive been pretty clear. You're wrong on things we can prove like weights and you're wrong on this being a good idea too.

 

[2020 MagneticPP1]

Im explaining why they think they need the name.

Ive been pretty clear. You're wrong on things we can prove like weights and you're wrong on this being a good idea too.

I mean, he’s not wrong about the weight, really.

 

[MAGS1]

I mean, he’s not wrong about the weight, really.

And the ZL1 has a curb weight of 3,907 lbs. CT5-V BW is 4,123 lbs, so about 200 lbs difference or +\- 5%.

By contrast, the Charger Hellcat has a curb weight of almost 4,600 lbs and the Scat Pack is almost 4,400 lbs. I’d be shocked if the Mach4 weighed anywhere close to those boats.

 

[Cobra Jet]

Look, regarding the weight of the car, all cars made today are heavy AF. Thanks Uncle Sam for making so many damn useless safety features required. This car will be >4k lbs. Probably 4,200-4,300 lbs.

I HIGHLY doubt any 4 door Mach4 buyers will be taking this car to the track. I have seen 2, maybe 3 Chargers on track. Ya, they all sucked. Now, slap a Procharger on it and bet your ass I will be flooring it merging on the highway. With that said, if I were to buy one I will take it on track at least once to find the limits.

Don't worry kids, the 2 door Mustang will still be made.

Do you know who will love buying this car? The police and highway patrol.

The Police and Highway Patrol (and State Police) already run the S550 and the S650 as pursuit vehicles…

The agencies don’t need a bloated 4-door Mustang - they have their 4-door Chevy SIUV and the Explorer. The REAL Mustang as in the S550 and S650 have proven their worth in the pursuit field where quite a few agencies are buying them in lots of 20 or more…

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/s550-s650-police-interceptors-the-definitive-thread.156139/

 

[robvas]

Do you know who will love buying this car? The police and highway patrol.

Not enough room in the car for their gear or a cage in the back.

 

[HoldenSSVandGT350]

🥱

 

[HoldenSSVandGT350]

A point being overlooked regarding weight is the distribution of such. An extra 125-200lbs will be mostly over the rear axle. And let’s face it, the 54/46% F/R Coupe could use a bit of extra junk in the trunk. 52/48% easy.

While they’re at it they should do trunk mounted battery à la GM Alpha platform. But I doubt they’ll do that bit. As long as they get serious and lose the dumb understeer-inducing 255/275 stagger on the GT model and go 275 square or larger.

 

[RocketGuy3]

Im explaining why they think they need the name.

Ive been pretty clear. You're wrong on things we can prove like weights and you're wrong on this being a good idea too.

It's so cool how you can tell people they're wrong with so much confidence on the internet.

You're right about one thing. We can prove it, and... I think I just did? Unless you're actually going to quibble about 100 lbs of crumbs in a massive touring car? Especially when the heavier one added luxury and sound deadening.

For something to go from the Mustang's already massive weight to "lame" just because of weight, it needs to gain much more than ~100 lbs. And If you care about the weight that much, you musta gotten lost on your way to the Miata forums.

As for the name thing, so then what is it that makes you so convinced that this car will be bad? Just because it'll be bigger? What makes it any worse, in that case, than any other performance sedan? Or do you just hate all performance sedans?

While they’re at it they should do trunk mounted battery à la GM Alpha platform. But I doubt they’ll do that bit. As long as they get serious and lose the dumb understeer-inducing 255/275 stagger on the GT model and go 275 square or larger.

Has any modern, high-power, RWD car EVER come with a square tire setup? Honest question.

I'll quantify "modern" as last 20 years, "high-power" as 300+ hp.

 

[Oakley]

It's so cool how you can tell people they're wrong with so much confidence on the internet.

you:

"Look at the CT4-V Blackwing. It's based on the Camaro platform, and ... is no heavier than a V8 Camaro. "

some other guy:
"...An extra 125-200lbs..."

also you:

"You're right about one thing. We can prove it, and... I think I just did? Unless you're actually going to quibble about 100 lbs of crumbs in a massive touring car? Especially when the heavier one added luxury and sound deadening."

so it went from no extra weight to 125-200lbs (my claim corroborated by the holden guy) and now you settle on around 100lbs. not only are you wrong but you admitted it and now crawfish to "well its just a little more weight" which is exactly my beef with this retarded nonsense, its always just a little more weight. weight ruins everything.

so, like i said. you are wrong about that. so its not shocking you'd misunderstand the point or maybe you just want to win an internet argument.

your view overly simplistic view is this is a quibble about a name.
I'm saying the name is an indicator of a much more fundamental problem.

you don't understand that. that's fine, but its also not my problem.
i will however happily mock your silliness.

wrong on weight. wrong on deeper philosophical implications of the nameplate designation.

For something to go from the Mustang's already massive weight to "lame" just because of weight, it needs to gain much more than ~100 lbs. And If you care about the weight that much, you musta gotten lost on your way to the Miata forums.

the current mustang is already lame.
the mustang was always a compromise.
my car is about as heavy as I can stand.

As for the name thing, so then what is it that makes you so convinced that this car will be bad? Just because it'll be bigger? What makes it any worse, in that case, than any other performance sedan? Or do you just hate all performance sedans?

if you actually want to know i wrote that out already in this thread.

 

[HoldenSSVandGT350]

Has any modern, high-power, RWD car EVER come with a square tire setup? Honest question.

I'll quantify "modern" as last 20 years, "high-power" as 300+ hp.

Not often, for myriad reasons. The chassis teams have many competing priorities to address but I know they are keenly aware that the increased front end grip of a square setup makes it more likely for a novice or talent -challenged driver to discover oversteer on public roads. Today’s stability and traction controls are great, but, not when morons switch them off. Lol.

So, we get staggered figments that induce entry and mid corner understeer to “protect” us. We also get measurably lesser lateral G grip because of the smaller front contact patches.

Ford will not do a square setup up unless they do a hardcore track variant, which is kinda doubtful in a 4 door from Ford. GM will do it though, it’ll be a 4 door 1LE. Bet on it.

 

[Oakley]

Not often, for myriad reasons. The chassis teams have many competing priorities to address but I know they are keenly aware that the increased front end grip of a square setup makes it more likely for a novice or talent -challenged driver to discover oversteer on public roads. Today’s stability and traction controls are great, but, not when morons switch them off. Lol.

So, we get staggered figments that induce entry and mid corner understeer to “protect” us. We also get measurably lesser lateral G grip because of the smaller front contact patches.

Ford will not do a square setup up unless they do a hardcore track variant, which is kinda doubtful in a 4 door from Ford. GM will do it though, it’ll be a 4 door 1LE. Bet on it.

how can that be true if ford already produces square setup mustangs?

i blame the epa and bean counters. really i just want a spare tire that'll fit on all four corners without having to go to the aftermarket.

 

[HoldenSSVandGT350]

how can that be true if ford already produces square setup mustangs?

i blame the epa and bean counters. really i just want a spare tire that'll fit on all four corners without having to go to the aftermarket.

Ever since about ‘11 the track pack and pp1 GTs have been 255/275 iirc. But, the pp2 went 305 square. Because the 1LE was eating pp1s up on track in OEM setup even though they ran 285/305. Gt350s have a mild stagger only at - 10mm up front, same for Mach 1 and DH. Still, I run 305 square on my 350. And, I can rotate properly and utilize 30K treadwear warranty on Conti ECS02s or Pilot PS4S. Win, win.

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