Aero Question for the More Experienced

[Ewheels]

I find myself wanting a splitter (PP2 style/size) and the 350R wing mainly because I think they look super cool but I justify it by telling myself they add some aero benefit. My question is, are these small, more factory-style aero parts worth the money? I know they do actually work and do provide downforce but is it even noticeable? Can you actually notice an extra 50-100 pounds? The PP2 splitter I'm sure adds maybe 20-40 lbs and I've read the 350R wing adds 150 or something but not sure at what speed.

Are these small bits actually helpful or is aero really only worth it when you add something like the APR GT250 wing and some massive splitter?

(Also just posting to get more activity in this sub-thread)

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[TeeLew]

I think the PP2 splitter is worth something, particularly if you're lowering the front of the car. It would want to be well anchored to the chassis, not just the bumper cover. I've seen a couple splitters that extend laterally to the side of the car. That's unnecessary & would do little. Dive planes are effective and hood venting can be _very_ effective.

I think that APR GT200 wing is a strange profile? It looks to have a ton of camber, but that might just be the angle of the pictures. If I were going to run it, I'd have at least a 1/2" gurney on it. It's hard to know how it would act on the car. It might be too low for effective flow, but maybe not.

I think the Drake wicker-style spoiler is a good option for the street. A good spoiler is surprisingly effective at producing downforce and often the drag penalty is less than you might expect.

 

[Biggsy]

I find myself wanting a splitter (PP2 style/size) and the 350R wing mainly because I think they look super cool but I justify it by telling myself they add some aero benefit. My question is, are these small, more factory-style aero parts worth the money? I know they do actually work and do provide downforce but is it even noticeable? Can you actually notice an extra 50-100 pounds? The PP2 splitter I'm sure adds maybe 20-40 lbs and I've read the 350R wing adds 150 or something but not sure at what speed.

Are these small bits actually helpful or is aero really only worth it when you add something like the APR GT250 wing and some massive splitter?

(Also just posting to get more activity in this sub-thread)

Which brand of GT350R wing are you talking about?

Just an FYI, Anderson Composites has 2 350R wings: one that is similar shape (which is what most people run) and the other that is OE. When I bought mine a couple years ago, the only one available was the 350R style one but Anderson has then received drawings form Ford and developed an OE to the R. Initially I bought the spoiler for aesthetics and as I get more into track data, I contacted them last week to see if there was any data on the R style and they said no.

350R style:
https://andersoncomposites.com/coll...fiber-rear-spoiler-for-2015-2019-ford-mustang

OE:
https://andersoncomposites.com/collections/all/products/2015-2018-shelby-gt350r-type-oe-rear-spoiler

Hope this helps your search. Also ZL1 splitter is not a bad option and may be the same or better than PP2 splitter

 

[Ewheels]

I did not know there were two kinds, thank you for that. I know the "350R style" one is taller than OEM but not as long. I would assume the OEM shaped one would work better as Ford has the deep pockets for CFD and wind tunnel testing that most aftermarket companies do not.
I've tried looking for data even on the OEM one and can't find anything definitive. I've read "it makes XXX downforce!" but at what speed is that at??

I'm sure the ZL1/PP2 splitter work but again, to what degree. Maybe it makes 30 lbs, can an average driver even feel the difference of 30 lbs? I have no idea

 

[TeeLew]

I did not know there were two kinds, thank you for that. I know the "350R style" one is taller than OEM but not as long. I would assume the OEM shaped one would work better as Ford has the deep pockets for CFD and wind tunnel testing that most aftermarket companies do not.
I've tried looking for data even on the OEM one and can't find anything definitive. I've read "it makes XXX downforce!" but at what speed is that at??

I'm sure the ZL1/PP2 splitter work but again, to what degree. Maybe it makes 30 lbs, can an average driver even feel the difference of 30 lbs? I have no idea

My guess would be that neither of those does squat, for any number of reasons.

OEM's spend a lot of time on drag numbers, because it affects their fuel economy numbers. Most spend next to nothing on making downforce, because it will likely hurt fuel economy numbers. About the most they'll do is an attempt to limit lift.

You're going to want to go 1 of 2 ways, either a wing which is roughly at roof height or a spoiler which is tall enough to limit visibility. If you decide on a wing, make sure you also run a gurney (~1/2"). If a spoiler & it's doing anything, you'll need supports on the backside to keep it from deflecting.

Trust CFD from an aftermarket company about as much as a fart after a rough night out in Tijuana. There's just no way they have the computing or engineering horsepower to do meaningful work of this type. It'd be much more interested in real world driver feedback or downforce based on suspension compression.

 

[Bluemustang]

I did not know there were two kinds, thank you for that. I know the "350R style" one is taller than OEM but not as long. I would assume the OEM shaped one would work better as Ford has the deep pockets for CFD and wind tunnel testing that most aftermarket companies do not.
I've tried looking for data even on the OEM one and can't find anything definitive. I've read "it makes XXX downforce!" but at what speed is that at??

I'm sure the ZL1/PP2 splitter work but again, to what degree. Maybe it makes 30 lbs, can an average driver even feel the difference of 30 lbs? I have no idea

ZL1 supposedly makes much more than 30 lbs. 80 lbs At 80mph is what they told me.

@Flyhalf has used this splitter and represents that it worked.

 

[AlbertD]

My initial thought and this is purely my opinion (not to be taken as fact for every situation) ...from a cost to benefit ratio... no, minor aero modifications will not be worth it. There are much more effective cost vs benefit modifications that will make someone faster on track way before aero becomes a consideration (Driver mod, tires, suspension, cooling, etc..) Aero is one of those things that I see used as a final tuning mechanism to optimize an already dialed in setup on track with a driver that knows the car inside and out... needs that extra amount of grip/stability during high speed sections to fully lay into it. The aero modifications and how drastic they are will also depend on the track configuration... suspension needs to be taken into account as well. Even if a car is properly setup with optimal aero modifications for a given track configuration... I have seen those "race" cars get passed by street cars with no aero mods. It ultimately comes down to how good the driver is.

If you have extra money to spend, enjoy the way some of the aero mods look then yeah they may add a bit of down force and benefit, but whether it is the optimal cost vs benefit type modification in most cases... nah, I wouldn't think so. My 2 cents.

 

[TeeLew]

ZL1 supposedly makes much more than 30 lbs. 80 lbs At 80mph is what they told me.

@Flyhalf has used this splitter and represents that it worked.

If it makes 80# @ 80 mph, then it's effective. To balance that, you'd want at least 100# on the rear. I'm going to guess that's about 1/2 what the GT4 car makes, which is meaningful.

I would tend to agree with AlbertD, though, aero is more the icing on the cake rather than the cake itself. If you are going the route of aero, then make all the downforce you can and drag is essentially meaningless. A big end of straight speed (as opposed to maximizing corner speed) is only good for lap time at a couple racetracks around the world, and if they're doing an open track event, you not at one of them.

 

[Hack]

I did not know there were two kinds, thank you for that. I know the "350R style" one is taller than OEM but not as long. I would assume the OEM shaped one would work better as Ford has the deep pockets for CFD and wind tunnel testing that most aftermarket companies do not.
I've tried looking for data even on the OEM one and can't find anything definitive. I've read "it makes XXX downforce!" but at what speed is that at??

I'm sure the ZL1/PP2 splitter work but again, to what degree. Maybe it makes 30 lbs, can an average driver even feel the difference of 30 lbs? I have no idea

Yeah, the best info I've seen on the R wing is 300 lbs, but without an associated speed I hate it.

interviewed Ford last week:

GT350R: 300 lbs
2019 Swing: 135 lbs @ 120 mph
2019 Swing with Gurney Flab: 238 @ 120 mph

My articles.

300 was from my 2020 GT500 article. They didn’t state.

www.hotrod.com/articles/2020-gt500-2019-shelby-bash/amp/

Other numbers are from a yet to be released article comparing the 2019 GT350 to the GT350R.

 

[PaddyPrix]

Occasionally you can see some showing their CFD numbers, but they're generally only talking about the big rear wings and showing numbers at like 100, 130, and 160, which we'd only really see at AutoClub's turns 1+2 and Willow Springs' 8. While it's not necessarily apples to apples, I'll soon have that seat of the pants factor as I remember 1+2 at ACS in my old car wingless, and hopefully returning in two weeks, provided they don't cancel it. That said, these side plates look and feel puny, would love to get some much larger ones, but I've got to keep things to just one change at a time.

 

[TeeLew]

Occasionally you can see some showing their CFD numbers, but they're generally only talking about the big rear wings and showing numbers at like 100, 130, and 160, which we'd only really see at AutoClub's turns 1+2 and Willow Springs Turn 8.

It's a squared function. If they tell you the loads at any speed, they've told you all you need to know. There are certain disturbance characteristics which aren't as easy to quantify, but loads aren't tough.

 

[Grintch]

I did not know there were two kinds, thank you for that. I know the "350R style" one is taller than OEM but not as long. I would assume the OEM shaped one would work better as Ford has the deep pockets for CFD and wind tunnel testing that most aftermarket companies do not.
I've tried looking for data even on the OEM one and can't find anything definitive. I've read "it makes XXX downforce!" but at what speed is that at??

I'm sure the ZL1/PP2 splitter work but again, to what degree. Maybe it makes 30 lbs, can an average driver even feel the difference of 30 lbs? I have no idea

That is probably 30 lbs at 150 mph. So like 7.5 lbs at 75 mph. My bet is you couldn't feel the difference unless the AVERAGE speed at the track was approaching that 150 mph.

P.S. Remember you are slower in the corners, which is really when more downforce helps.

 

[TeeLew]

P.S. Remember you are slower in the corners, which is really when more downforce helps.

It's more than just the downforce. The drag is equally important, and not just as a negative w.r.t. top speed. Drag will have a big influence on the aero stability of the car. The splitter will have next to no drag, but a good spoiler or wing will have some and it's a pronounced effect when braking from high speeds.

In a GT car of any flavor, you're always likely to be limited on overall downforce by what you can produce on the front. At times, you can go faster by increasing rear downforce even though it produces an aero understeer. Even if you are unbalanced with a ~30% front aero split, often the gains you get from improving braking will be enough to justify the addition.

 

[Plimmer]

Lots of good information about aero on the AJ Hartman website:
https://ajhartmanaero.com/blog/project-crusher-part-3/

 

[Flyhalf]

I had 350anderson (partial) replica and ZL1 addons on my pp1.
Few notes
The 350R wing ,according to ford perfomance generates 125lbs at 120mph.
300lbs is really too much (i mean maybe at 150mph)

The zl1 addons with chassis mounting was a nice piece. Before mounting on the chassis i saw big deformations on the oem pp1 splitter ,sign of "downforce" pushing down.

However
A splitter over 4' height is not really effective.
Pp2 splitter generates around 20lbs more than pp1.

Gpod Aero to work needs to be over 100mph to feel the effect...
Last info
Remember the hood vent you have in the car does generates DF. i think 20-30lbs if i remember well. So put that also in the equation.

Ps i have the Zl1 addons still at home.
Pps. Not i dont sell you the old anderson wing lol

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