Letter to FORD addressing ADM?

[PTM5.0]

Tomster,
Not trying to pick an argument but two things you've said in this thread are incorrect that are common misbeliefs. First, Ford has dealerships due to federal regulations not allowing them to sell directly to consumers.
Second, Ford does care about what consumers want. They're why vehicles are getting more connectivity and 4wd Super Duties still have manual locking front hubs.

Everybody, Ford makes money with high sales volume. Unfortunately the niche vehicles aren't really on their radar to keep tabs on ADM. The GT500 are made to help boost sales of regular Mustangs by creating interest.

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[bdub85]

Tomster,
Not trying to pick an argument but two things you've said in this thread are incorrect that are common misbeliefs. First, Ford has dealerships due to federal regulations not allowing them to sell directly to consumers.
Second, Ford does care about what consumers want. They're why vehicles are getting more connectivity and 4wd Super Duties still have manual locking front hubs.

Everybody, Ford makes money with high sales volume. Unfortunately the niche vehicles aren't really on their radar to keep tabs on ADM. The GT500 are made to help boost sales of regular Mustangs by creating interest.

The only way Ford would care is if the ADM dealers charge would impact sales. As long as the dealers are moving cars, they don't give a shit.

 

[Hack]

Tomster,
Not trying to pick an argument but two things you've said in this thread are incorrect that are common misbeliefs. First, Ford has dealerships due to federal regulations not allowing them to sell directly to consumers.
Second, Ford does care about what consumers want. They're why vehicles are getting more connectivity and 4wd Super Duties still have manual locking front hubs.

Everybody, Ford makes money with high sales volume. Unfortunately the niche vehicles aren't really on their radar to keep tabs on ADM. The GT500 are made to help boost sales of regular Mustangs by creating interest.

There are federal regulations - I personally would prefer that there were fewer regulations and this would be one I would eliminate. However, both Ford and all of us need the dealers. Do you want to drive to Detroit for your oil changes? Do you think Ford has the cash on hand to purchase thousands of buildings and hire all the people to staff them so that they have local presences available everywhere in the US?

Still baffles me how two dealers a block apart can sell the same car for a $20K difference and many on this forum refuse to call one of them greedy, especially when we know that MSRP includes significant profit built in. The term "market adjustment" belays the argument that the poor dealer needs to make up for lost revenue on all other sales.

I'm not for getting the government involved so stop with the communist/socialist diatribe. You make your own personal moral choices and I will make mine. Hopefully enough individuals will make enough right choices that a free economic system will endure rather than the ignorant like Ocasio-Cortez gain the upper hand. But don't deny that they are moral choices, that fairness in pricing should exist, and that capitalism needs a moral people to work.

Sure the dealers are greedy - if you will admit that you are greedy as well. You want your employer to pay you the maximum possible. You probably negotiate to try to get as much salary as possible. You may even change jobs to try to earn more money. When you sell things you try to sell them for as much as you can. When you buy things you try to buy them as cheaply as possible.

There is nothing unethical about trying to get a good deal in a voluntary transaction. It's just self-interest. Don't try to say that when others do it they are immoral but when you do it it's ok. Just think a little about it.

 

[superman07]

Not about socialism, its about what is good for Ford and the customers. In today's world these things matter. People today are not like us older folks and our parents were. People now just don't keep buying the same brand of vehicle. It is a what can you do for me today mentality. There is a complete and utter disconnect between the higher profile cars, ADM, the sales experience, and experience after the sale dealing with ownership and maintenance.

Ford tries to play both sides for the middle, Blaming final cost and all ADM shenanigans on the dealers themselves.

Ford is burning cash, They will likely be forced to cut their dividend. 2018 adjusted EPS represented its worst showing since 2009. Ford is trying desperately to become profitable in China and the EU. Any major issues with F150 sales in NA would be devastating in 2019.

 

[Redzone]

I think what everyone is trying to tell you is the only reason there is ADM is because of people (yea like you) that are willing to go out of their way to pay more than the MSRP (real price) of a car. Reminds me of the 475.00 hammers the government buys (by the thousands). If nobody paid ADM there would be no ADM. End of story.

I'm fifty six now and had a stroke two years ago from which I have recovered, but another is coming, it's just a matter of when. Could be twenty years from now, could be before I finish this post. I worked my ass off and sold my company three years ago and was looking forward to a great early retirement. These are the breaks and I don't tell you this for pity.

It's to let you know that not all who pay ADM are impatient, privileged ass hats set out to be the first just because.

One last thing, I know a very simple way to get every dealer to stop with ADM's. You ready? Simply agree that from now on everyone pays MSRP. For any car. Nothing more, nothing less. How's that for a deal?

 

[V00D00]

Learned my lesson the hard way.

1. I don’t have the money, or sensibility to pay ADM again . I understand free markets, but Ford does reap what it sows. The number of personal aquintences and including myself that have moved agnostic on the brand where we were once true blue is pretty shocking. Car sales will continue to be more and more competitive. Don’t sleep on some of these brands that used to be junk. Wife picked up a turbo 6 stinger and it’s legit.

2. No brand can withstand quality and reliability concerns when they break out from forums and start becoming part of the common “belief”. The voodoo is largely trashed for reliability on many serious track forums. Failures are well, bad for business. I don’t care about what some guy over at a forum says but when you have professional drivers telling folks to drop the flat plane, well people listen. I mention this due to what is a fundamental mismatch between what people thought the service experience should be for a premium, ADM car, and what we get. Ford treats you like you bought a eco-wtf. If ADM is going to be par for the course dealers would do well to remember it when the car comes in with issues, but in my experience they don’t.

3. Again, after buying what people thought was a special vehicle they get treated like assholes when they realize it drinks oil like a sailor chugs rum. God forbid if the 500 has some kind of widespread problem don’t act like it isn’t important to the customer. Don’t leave it to dealers, get Ford service back in the game. They used to be helpful before this CEO.

4. If the 500 escapes launch without teething issues, the DCT actually turns out to be GTG, and at some point ADM evaporates I might buy one. But certainly not before. Between shift forks, 10 speed problems, cylinder scoring, and other issues like AC and Alternators, I don’t think Ford can pull these kinds of cars off properly on round one.

Flame away, but buy early and high at your own risk. If you really just got to have it now, roll your dice. Shit I’m just honest. I can’t afford another emotional first model year purchase and take a chance like that.

best logical comment yet

Shelby continues to be the least reliable car I have ever owned. 2011 F150 was about dead at 120k despite almost all highway miles and maint like clockwork. 2018 F150 already in the shop twice for IWE problems before 2800 miles. This last truck was purchased at a significant discount from invoice, or I would have went another direction. Still got burned lol. I pray for these 500 owners.

Ive never had a non-racing caused issue on any of my 6 Ford trucks since i was 20yrs old

I think what everyone is trying to tell you is the only reason there is ADM is because of people (yea like you) that are willing to go out of their way to pay more than the MSRP (real price) of a car. Reminds me of the 475.00 hammers the government buys (by the thousands). If nobody paid ADM there would be no ADM. End of story.

the real price is the price it sells for

Just food for thought and I understand that there are those who would disagree. Not a socialist at all. But markets do require more than just what you can get for something. Morality has to enter somewhere. The proof is that some dealers sell for MSRP and not just because they are trying to build a customer base. They truly are good people and make a good enough living at MSRP. The same is true in every craft or profession and even die-hard capitalists appreciate these people even though they might consider them fools for leaving money on the table. Supply and demand is not the be all end all. And I don't believe that nonsense about needing the ADM to make up for losses on all the other sales. I just travelled 160 miles to purchase a truck for $3000 less than local who said they gave me their best price but would match other's price but I went with the dealer who dealt straight with me from the get go. No, I don't want to see it legislated and I personally wouldn't pay an ADM. But I would appreciate a better business model reflecting that morality from Ford itself. After all the MSRP is what they think it is worth brand spanking new. It is what it is though.

sir, you are not allowed to travel 160 miles to find a better deal. thats immoral to the people living in that area. It carries a $6000 fine

No, not scary at all. At some point when one has more than they need the concept of greed enters the system. I am not saying this is absolute or that the government needs to intervene in a socialist manner that you seem to fear. What I am saying is that when one dealer in town sells for MSRP and another in the next for $20K over, then yes there may well be greed involved. And no, I will put a price on my house when I sell it and if someone offers more I won't up it just because they are willing to pay more. The market and competition are good things that can take care of many economic situations but without some sense of morality they can fail because of greed. Perhaps not in the element of non-essentials like a GT500 but the principal still applies.

free markets self correct

There are federal regulations - I personally would prefer that there were fewer regulations and this would be one I would eliminate. However, both Ford and all of us need the dealers. Do you want to drive to Detroit for your oil changes? Do you think Ford has the cash on hand to purchase thousands of buildings and hire all the people to staff them so that they have local presences available everywhere in the US?


Sure the dealers are greedy - if you will admit that you are greedy as well. You want your employer to pay you the maximum possible. You probably negotiate to try to get as much salary as possible. You may even change jobs to try to earn more money. When you sell things you try to sell them for as much as you can. When you buy things you try to buy them as cheaply as possible.

There is nothing unethical about trying to get a good deal in a voluntary transaction. It's just self-interest. Don't try to say that when others do it they are immoral but when you do it it's ok. Just think a little about it.

your not thinking free enough. all that needs to happen is de-regulate the mandating of dealerships. gap filling entrepreneurs will see the disconnect and open places to handle such things, for those that WANT to have dealership level service.

Some of us, dont care about dealerships, and do the maint. ourselves, will replace a burnt bulb on our own etc etc. but a true free market allows for the option of the individual.

 

[cosmic charlie]

best logical comment yet



Ive never had a non-racing caused issue on any of my 6 Ford trucks since i was 20yrs old


the real price is the price it sells for



sir, you are not allowed to travel 160 miles to find a better deal. thats immoral to the people living in that area. It carries a $6000 fine


free markets self correct



your not thinking free enough. all that needs to happen is de-regulate the mandating of dealerships. gap filling entrepreneurs will see the disconnect and open places to handle such things, for those that WANT to have dealership level service.

Some of us, dont care about dealerships, and do the maint. ourselves, will replace a burnt bulb on our own etc etc. but a true free market allows for the option of the individual.

So in other words you paid ADM.

 

[Hack]

your not thinking free enough. all that needs to happen is de-regulate the mandating of dealerships. gap filling entrepreneurs will see the disconnect and open places to handle such things, for those that WANT to have dealership level service.

Some of us, dont care about dealerships, and do the maint. ourselves, will replace a burnt bulb on our own etc etc. but a true free market allows for the option of the individual.

Like I said, I'm all for the removal of regulations. Not sure how you missed that.

 

[CANTWN4LSN]

Sure the dealers are greedy - if you will admit that you are greedy as well. You want your employer to pay you the maximum possible. You probably negotiate to try to get as much salary as possible. You may even change jobs to try to earn more money. When you sell things you try to sell them for as much as you can. When you buy things you try to buy them as cheaply as possible.

There is nothing unethical about trying to get a good deal in a voluntary transaction. It's just self-interest. Don't try to say that when others do it they are immoral but when you do it it's ok. Just think a little about it.

Well I'm self-employed and provide a medical service for 1/4 what others in town charge. This has saved the healthcare system over $30 million in the past 20 yrs but not to my personal benefit. I could charge what the market would bear or join the other group and make a lot more but do feel a moral responsibility to myself and others to be reasonably priced and care for people I grew up with both physically and financially. Not sure I need to admit to being greedy.

Again I am amazed how wed to the free market people are that they won't acknowledge the moral dimension of human economic interaction. Apply the golden rule. I'm going to charge someone a reasonable price, not tack on $25K just because they can afford it and want something bad enough. That is hardly just trying to get a good deal. It's ok to call someone greedy when they clearly are.

A truly free market does not exist anyway including the automotive industry. A free market is a good general principle. When it results in the more affordable betterment of human life it is useful. When it results in the opposite it is harmful. Free markets in theory are self correcting, in reality not always so. I would even venture to guess that a lot of people rich enough to afford ADMs get so not by the free market but by non-competitive business arrangements or government contracts, legislation, or favoritism.

 

[CAL Captain]

Well I'm self-employed and provide a medical service for 1/4 what others in town charge. This has saved the healthcare system over $30 million in the past 20 yrs but not to my personal benefit. I could charge what the market would bear or join the other group and make a lot more but do feel a moral responsibility to myself and others to be reasonably priced and care for people I grew up with both physically and financially. Not sure I need to admit to being greedy.

Again I am amazed how wed to the free market people are that they won't acknowledge the moral dimension of human economic interaction. Apply the golden rule. I'm going to charge someone a reasonable price, not tack on $25K just because they can afford it and want something bad enough. That is hardly just trying to get a good deal. It's ok to call someone greedy when they clearly are.

A truly free market does not exist anyway including the automotive industry. A free market is a good general principle. When it results in the more affordable betterment of human life it is useful. When it results in the opposite it is harmful. Free markets in theory are self correcting, in reality not always so. I would even venture to guess that a lot of people rich enough to afford ADMs get so not by the free market but by non-competitive business arrangements or government contracts, legislation, or favoritism.

"You didn't build that."

 

[V00D00]

So in other words you paid ADM.

Not yet, but i will pay up to within what i deem fair for a 1st allocation.

Like I said, I'm all for the removal of regulations. Not sure how you missed that.

Apologies, i must have mis-read a portion. I basically re-stated what you had said, after reviewing.

Well I'm self-employed and provide a medical service for 1/4 what others in town charge. This has saved the healthcare system over $30 million in the past 20 yrs but not to my personal benefit. I could charge what the market would bear or join the other group and make a lot more but do feel a moral responsibility to myself and others to be reasonably priced and care for people I grew up with both physically and financially. Not sure I need to admit to being greedy.

Again I am amazed how wed to the free market people are that they won't acknowledge the moral dimension of human economic interaction. Apply the golden rule. I'm going to charge someone a reasonable price, not tack on $25K just because they can afford it and want something bad enough. That is hardly just trying to get a good deal. It's ok to call someone greedy when they clearly are.

A truly free market does not exist anyway including the automotive industry. A free market is a good general principle. When it results in the more affordable betterment of human life it is useful. When it results in the opposite it is harmful. Free markets in theory are self correcting, in reality not always so. I would even venture to guess that a lot of people rich enough to afford ADMs get so not by the free market but by non-competitive business arrangements or government contracts, legislation, or favoritism.

1st please tell us the the product or service you provide so that we can validate your claims. lots of socialists like to live in make-believe

2nd point, this is NOT a NEED. nobody NEEDS to buy a single one of these cars, there is ZERO MORALITY in it.

3rd Just because your used to a not truly free market, doesnt mean a true free market dont work.

 

[CAL Captain]

Well I'm self-employed and provide a medical service for 1/4 what others in town charge. This has saved the healthcare system over $30 million in the past 20 yrs but not to my personal benefit. I could charge what the market would bear or join the other group and make a lot more but do feel a moral responsibility to myself and others to be reasonably priced and care for people I grew up with both physically and financially. Not sure I need to admit to being greedy.

Yes everyone is greedy but you and you will determine who to apply the label to. And those you determine to be greedy will be prevented from being greedy... by the govt, if necessary (and you deem it necessary).

Again I am amazed how wed to the free market people are that they won't acknowledge the moral dimension of human economic interaction. Apply the golden rule. I'm going to charge someone a reasonable price, not tack on $25K just because they can afford it and want something bad enough. That is hardly just trying to get a good deal. It's ok to call someone greedy when they clearly are.

Sure... as long as we're free to call you greedy back even if you don't think you are. And maybe report you to the proper authorities for being so.

A truly free market does not exist anyway including the automotive industry. A free market is a good general principle. When it results in the more affordable betterment of human life it is useful. When it results in the opposite it is harmful. Free markets in theory are self correcting, in reality not always so. I would even venture to guess that a lot of people rich enough to afford ADMs get so not by the free market but by non-competitive business arrangements or government contracts, legislation, or favoritism.

No, a free market doesn't exist--because the govt keeps interfering with it... not just on the big things but on every degree of minutiae you can imagine. And your "venture" is complete horseshit as you apply it to the average small businessman. You want to see what you describe in full effect, look at someone I would guess you admire: Albert Gore or any of the other leftist wackos who preach this shit (occasional-cortex) but will never live for themselves. Or evil morons like schumer who has NEVER held a private sector job but knows all about how to run our lives and fortunes for us.

I provide a superior service in my business and I get full-price for it and proud to do it.

 

[2018OFPP1?2]

Well I'm self-employed and provide a medical service for 1/4 what others in town charge. This has saved the healthcare system over $30 million in the past 20 yrs but not to my personal benefit. I could charge what the market would bear or join the other group and make a lot more but do feel a moral responsibility to myself and others to be reasonably priced and care for people I grew up with both physically and financially. Not sure I need to admit to being greedy.

Again I am amazed how wed to the free market people are that they won't acknowledge the moral dimension of human economic interaction. Apply the golden rule. I'm going to charge someone a reasonable price, not tack on $25K just because they can afford it and want something bad enough. That is hardly just trying to get a good deal. It's ok to call someone greedy when they clearly are.

A truly free market does not exist anyway including the automotive industry. A free market is a good general principle. When it results in the more affordable betterment of human life it is useful. When it results in the opposite it is harmful. Free markets in theory are self correcting, in reality not always so. I would even venture to guess that a lot of people rich enough to afford ADMs get so not by the free market but by non-competitive business arrangements or government contracts, legislation, or favoritism.

It's a big world. If you don't like the economics of this country, why not move to one that fits your ideals instead of blaming everyone here for your decisions?

A free market isn't a free market if you try to control it. Like it, or it lump it.

I'll spend my money how I see fit, and you should do the same. You don't have to agree with the choices others make in this regard, but you should respect them if you expect the same in return.

ETA, for the record I personally refuse to even pay MSRP for a new vehicle, but I understand things in short supply and high demand will command a higher price, and I don't begrudge those with the ability their choice to do so.

 

[Nomadic]

1A550685-0792-48FF-A899-ABCF4CCA02B4

• Nomadic
• Jan 13, 2019

Well, I think you ought to go get one if you can afford it.

I’ve been enjoying mine for 4 months now.

I’ve been enjoying my ‘19 GT immensely. I missed out on spending $20k+ for the same car plus some Bullitt badges, cheap leather, and 15hp. LOL. Suckers born every minute.

 

[CAL Captain]

1A550685-0792-48FF-A899-ABCF4CCA02B4

• Nomadic
• Jan 13, 2019

I’ve been enjoying my ‘19 GT immensely. I missed out on spending $20k+ for the same car plus some Bullitt badges, cheap leather, and 15hp. LOL. Suckers born every minute.

Yes, you would know.

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