Cooled seats not cooling

[Free Agent]

Firstly, thank you very much for being the one who is starting this off. And thank you for the pictures and information.

By any chance did you get to mention about that plastic piece covering the intake of the upper seat fan? I still feel that is a huge obstruction/restriction to that upper unit working properly. If it wasn't such a pain to dig into I'd take mine off myself but I have a feeling you almost have to pull the cover off the seat to even work on it and I'm not going to try that myself.

I will try to make another contact with Ford. I know they will want me to take it in. I know it will end up like your case though with nothing really accomplished other than spending time at the dealership. Yet again my thanks.

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[GT Pony]

Unplugging that plug causes both to not work. He did say that he thought that the climate control module would shut one off if the other failed.

Aaah ... yes, it's possible the control module that controls them knows if one is unplugged.

 

[GT Pony]

By any chance did you get to mention about that plastic piece covering the intake of the upper seat fan? I still feel that is a huge obstruction/restriction to that upper unit working properly. If it wasn't such a pain to dig into I'd take mine off myself but I have a feeling you almost have to pull the cover off the seat to even work on it and I'm not going to try that myself,

Too bad the unit couldn't be removed and left plugged in to see if it blows cool air when operating outside the seat. But if the rear flap was lifted up enough to see it up in there, I would think it would breath enough to work right if it was going to work right.

 

[Free Agent]

Guys I just discovered something else.

I shown a flashlight on the lower fans and the outlets (that point forwards) are about 75% blocked off by this thin piece of white styrofoam like material. I'd take a picture but I'm not sure it would come out. Check yours to see if you also have this piece of white styrofoam. I tried pulling it out of the drivers seat but the end broke off and its still on there. I'm thinking they haven't removed this and it is blocking off air flow.

I will try to get a picture but if you shine a flashlight under the seat you will see the rectangular outlet for the bottom fan unit pointing forwards. If it has the piece of white styrofoam like material blocking off the fan outlet you will be able to see it.

 

[Free Agent]

I can't get a decent picture of it right now. It just rained and the humidity in my garage makes the camera fog up the second its in the car. I tried to pull the one out on the passenger side and the same thing happened, the end of the thin white styrofoam broke off and its still on there. I suppose it could be some sort of wick for the moisture produced by the Peltier unit and the air blows across it and evaporates the condensation. It really looks like it blocks the flow though.

ADDENDUM: If you look at DroidJunky's first picture of the lower unit. You can see the white styrofoam sticking out to either side of the outlet. This is what I tried pulling out on both sides and they snapped/tore off as they are very thin (maybe 1 mm thick at the most) You can see one of the styrofoam tabs in his second picture as well. What you can't see in the pics is that it blocks off about 75% of the fan outlet. I wonder if these are supposed to be there or not?

He has seen where the factory actual forgot to make an opening on the fan output which basically didn't allow the air to escape but didn't think that was the issue since you can feel a little air blowing.

I wonder if this styrofoam piece is what he is talking about. DroidJunky, is there any way you can re-contact your service advisor and ask if that piece should be there? (That is if you have it.) Thanks.

 

[Free Agent]

Here is the best shot I could get.

You can see the white styrofoam pretty much blocking out the entire rectangular outlet for the lower fan. You can feel air moving through there but it isn't much I must say.

 

[Droid_Junky]

Not really sure what Styrofoam piece you are talking about. I was able to reach around the end of the flexible outlet tube and it is a hard plastic vent and then a small padding. I still think it's strange there is so much air within the back of the seat. If all that air actually made it to the front it might actually feel better.

I did point out the cover but he wasn't sure. He did say this is a newer type. The old type had changeable filters. I tried the bits that I have but that screw is tiny.

I also needed an excuse to go cruising again so I took a piece of carboard, made a 2 inch cut on each side, folded it 90 degrees and taped it so it wouldn't collapse. Basically it held the flap open and scooped up some air from underneath the seat. It actually made the bottom even colder but did slightly improve the back.

Shining a flashlight in the back actually showed me that the perforations on the back are more open than they appear to be but there is still a lot of heat trapped in there.




Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk

 

[Free Agent]

Okay, a little more testing.

That vent I show in my picture is some sort of hot air exhaust for the Peltier unit. Air blows out of it but it is warm/hot air. I'm glad now I didn't pull the styrofoam out as it is probably designed as a wick for the moisture the unit makes, then the hot air blows over it and evaporates the moisture.

That leads me to the upper one. I would assume the hot spot that we feel on the back of our seat is this hot air vent for the Peltier unit blowing right on the back of the seat. Unlike the bottom unit where there is a lot of space for heated air to escape, it is basically trapped in the seat back in the upper unit. Not much we can do about that save for cutting a hole in our seat and letting that hot air vent directly into the cabin. Short of finding a way to better ventilate our seat backs, we are never going to get a decently cool upper seat back since the air is trapped inside of it.

I believe the fans aren't there to circulate the cooled air from the Peltier unit, but to vent the HOT air away from the unit. And for the seat back it vents the hot air up, warm air rises and gets trapped inside the seat heating the same area it is trying to cool.

I think we are SOL. :(

 

[GT Pony]

I believe the fans aren't there to circulate the cooled air from the Peltier unit, but to vent the HOT air away from the unit. And for the seat back it vents the hot air up, warm air rises and gets trapped inside the seat heating the same area it is trying to cool.

Maybe the fan does both somehow ... moves air across the cooler to exit the seat leather, and also to exhaust warm air from the Peltier unit (?). There has to be a fan that blows air across the cooled element of the Peltier unit and out the seat surface as there is not mistaking that cool air blows out of the seat bottom.

If you put your hand near that little fan cover on the back unit, can you feel warm air coming out or ambient air going in?

 

[Free Agent]

Maybe the fan does both somehow ... moves air across the cooler to exit the seat leather, and also to exhaust warm air from the Peltier unit (?). There has to be a fan that blows air across the cooled element of the Peltier unit and out the seat surface as there is not mistaking that cool air blows out of the seat bottom.

If you put your hand near that little fan cover on the back unit, can you feel warm air coming out or ambient air going in?

I can't get my hand up and into the upper or back unit, just the lower one. And knowing that the upper should function like the lower, its just a poor design. Its trying to cool an area that it is kicking warm "exhausted" air into.

 

[GT Pony]

I can't get my hand up and into the upper or back unit, just the lower one. And knowing that the upper should function like the lower, its just a poor design. Its trying to cool an area that it is kicking warm "exhausted" air into.

I agree ... that's probably the reason they don't cool like the bottom unit. Too bad it couldn't be removed while still connected to the wiring to verify.

Sounds like Ford needs to have a dedicated exhaust path that vents the warm air down under the seat back away from the unit.

Would still like to know exactly what part of it gets warm, or where the warm exhaust is currently going on these back units.

 

[Free Agent]

I agree ... that's probably the reason they don't cool like the bottom unit. Too bad it couldn't be removed while still connected to the wiring to verify.

Sounds like Ford needs to have a dedicated exhaust path that vents the warm air down under the seat back away from the unit.

Would still like to know exactly what part of it gets warm, or where the warm exhaust is currently going on these back units.

Yes for the upper seat back to perform more efficiently, that warm air would be better served vented down and out the bottom of the seat or up the seat back with a vent that would let the blown/exhausted hot air out of the seat. The perforations just aren't enough. The spot on the seat back gets hot because that is exactly where the upper vent outlet for the hot air coming off the Peltier unit blows directly on the seat back. You can feel the unit through the seat and you can feel where that hot air outlet goes and it is right where it gets hot on the back seat. That would be the PERFECT place to put a vent in the seat to let that hot air out and not be trapped. Ford probably knows this and figures it isn't worth the $1.25 to cast a plastic vent into the back of the seat vinyl. :(

I think we just have to deal with it unless you feel like cutting holes in the seat back and ruining it or finding a way like DroidJunky to loosen the vinyl and wedge something in there that will let cooler air in and warmer air out.

 

[Free Agent]

Droid this question is for you if you don't mind…

The flexible rubber vent is dead center of the seat above the lumbar support. It's also possible that the flexible rubber is getting squashed when we sit back and preventing the air to circulate. The rubber is very flimsy.

So is that black plastic/rubber piece (looks ridged or ribbed) that comes off the top of the upper unit soft as you say? Can you tell if it is angled towards the back side of the seat? If that thing is getting squashed when we lean back and blocking out where the hot air needs to escape it could also explain why the back seat cooler isn't as efficient as well. It seems to me a perfect storm of variables contributing to overall poor function. I wonder if that rubber piece was replaced with a hard plastic piece, or even taken off, if it would let the hot air vent a little better. Again just guesses on my part.

Lastly, if I were a betting man, I'd wager we could improve the cooling of the upper/back unit by doing 2 things. Taking off the piece of plastic that blocks the intake for the fan. (Or cutting drilling holes in it) And 2 pulling off that rubber duct off the top part of the unit where the warm air needs to vent or exhaust. Since the seat back is basically enclosed, even by doing those 2 things I don't think it would make the seat back as cool as the bottom still. You'd have to add a third step, cutting holes or adding a vent to the back of the seat backs.

That or move to Antarctica where we never need to use a cooled seat. ;)

 

[Crais]

I tested mine early this afternoon, windows were up all night in the garage. I only tested the driver's side. A/C off.

I could physically feel the air coming from the bottom cushion and the middle & top of the back. The flow near the top seemed pretty weak, but I could feel it with a dry hand. The middle had flow that seemed less than the bottom cushion but still decent.

Ambient 86 (car). Floor 74, exterior wall 80.

Drivers Side after starting and enabling cooling.
Bottom center 82
Back lower 82
Back mid 82
Back high 83

Drivers Side: 5 min
Bottom center 77
Back lower 84
Back mid 79
Back high 81

Drivers Side: 10 min
Bottom center 79
Back lower 85
Back mid 84
Back high 84

The difference after 10 minutes was much greater than I expected. I honestly didn't expect an appreciable change from the 5 minute mark. The flow (subjective) to the back after 10 minutes was less with me barely able to feel it from the middle and top with a dry hand. Bottom didn't seem reduced at all.

In light of that, perhaps my seats aren't performing as well as I thought.

Does anyone know how the peltier is cooled?

 

[Droid_Junky]

Droid this question is for you if you don't mind…



So is that black plastic/rubber piece (looks ridged or ribbed) that comes off the top of the upper unit soft as you say? Can you tell if it is angled towards the back side of the seat? If that thing is getting squashed when we lean back and blocking out where the hot air needs to escape it could also explain why the back seat cooler isn't as efficient as well. It seems to me a perfect storm of variables contributing to overall poor function. I wonder if that rubber piece was replaced with a hard plastic piece, or even taken off, if it would let the hot air vent a little better. Again just guesses on my part.

Lastly, if I were a betting man, I'd wager we could improve the cooling of the upper/back unit by doing 2 things. Taking off the piece of plastic that blocks the intake for the fan. (Or cutting drilling holes in it) And 2 pulling off that rubber duct off the top part of the unit where the warm air needs to vent or exhaust. Since the seat back is basically enclosed, even by doing those 2 things I don't think it would make the seat back as cool as the bottom still. You'd have to add a third step, cutting holes or adding a vent to the back of the seat backs.

That or move to Antarctica where we never need to use a cooled seat. ;)

It is extremely soft. I couldn't really tell if it was getting squashed. It's only held on by tie wraps. I got a fairly decent pic. Would have posted it earlier but apparently my new phone is saving the files too large. Maybe that is the foam Free Agent is stalking about?

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