Cooled seats not cooling

[Droid_Junky]

I've gone as far as I could go with it at this point. I'm not able to get a better view without messing with the fasteners that are holding the leather tight.

I doubt it gets fixed tomorrow. I just want to go in and get it recorded. I'm not going in and accepting "that is how it should work" statements. Someone else said it earlier but the more of us that go in, the more likely it will get some attention.

I do believe it just can't get enough air. I would think someone at Ford could have designed something that enclosures the entire fan but also allows it to access air from under the seat. A narrow plastic vent could have exited right behind the lower fan.

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[Free Agent]

^^^ With the fan cover off the Peltier unit, it might help the air flow through the fan. But as Droid_Junky discovered that even with the seat back opened up (to get air back there) and running the coolers on the high setting, the outlet of the Peltier unit duct got hot (110 F).

Maybe he can get that fan cover off and test some more to prove if that changes anything. That fan cover must be on their in case someone in the back seat presses up against the seat back, which would block the fan inlet.

Here's a "what if" ...
If the back unit seems to start cooling like the bottom unit after the fan cover is removed, then a simple fix might be to drill a bunch of holes in the cover so it can intake air more efficiently, and still act as a cover to prevent the seat back material from blocking it if it gets pushed up against the fan inlet.

That is exactly what I was suggesting.

If that plastic piece was a grille or cage or strong plastic mesh instead of a solid piece of plastic, it would flow more air. It is obviously there for protection for the unit. If it was easily accessible I'd have it off and holes drilled into it myself to test my theory. We will know we are onto something or not if Ford changes that plastic piece to a grille/cage/vented design for the 2017 model year or up. ;)

 

[Free Agent]

I've gone as far as I could go with it at this point. I'm not able to get a better view without messing with the fasteners that are holding the leather tight.

I doubt it gets fixed tomorrow. I just want to go in and get it recorded. I'm not going in and accepting "that is how it should work" statements. Someone else said it earlier but the more of us that go in, the more likely it will get some attention.

I do believe it just can't get enough air. I would think someone at Ford could have designed something that enclosures the entire fan but also allows it to access air from under the seat. A narrow plastic vent could have exited right behind the lower fan.

Let us know the results. Do you think you could suggest to them to take off that plastic shield blocking the upper fan/cooler and run it that way or maybe even take it off and drill holes in it? I doubt they'd do the drilling part, but they may take it off. Does anyone ever sit in the back seat of your car? Just a thought, I am very thankful you are doing this and doubly thankful for the pictures.

 

[Droid_Junky]

Let us know the results. Do you think you could suggest to them to take off that plastic shield blocking the upper fan/cooler and run it that way or maybe even take it off and drill holes in it? I doubt they'd do the drilling part, but they may take it off. Does anyone ever sit in the back seat of your car? Just a thought, I am very thankful you are doing this and doubly thankful for the pictures.

I will definitely mention it if they don't have any answers. I looked at it one more time to see if I missed seeing a place where it is venting. I ran it again and I'm already thinking of taking back what I just said about not getting enough air as the only cause. I think it is also just overheating within seconds of starting it I can feel an increase of heat.

The place I take it will ask as soon as I pull into the building what I came in for, I'm going to say stick your hand right here...

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[GT Pony]

I looked at it one more time to see if I missed seeing a place where it is venting. I ran it again and I'm already thinking of taking back what I just said about not getting enough air as the only cause. I think it is also just overheating within seconds of starting it I can feel an increase of heat.

If it's putting out heat almost instantly after turning on the cooling function, then I'm guessing the units are defective or Ford has messed up the wiring system going to them somehow. If you can show that to the dealership, maybe they will order new units and hopefully they will work right.

I'm not sure if there is an inherent design problem going on here, or just a whole bunch of crappy units that don't work right because they were built wrong (not per drawing).

 

[Free Agent]

If it's putting out heat almost instantly after turning on the cooling function, then I'm guessing the units are defective or Ford has messed up the wiring system going to them somehow. If you can show that to the dealership, maybe they will order new units and hopefully they will work right.

I'm not sure if there is an inherent design problem going on here, or just a whole bunch of crappy units that don't work right because they were built wrong (not per drawing).

If the upper one is truly a Peltier style unit the back part of it should get warm/hot. Its the front part that doesn't seem to be getting cool or the back is getting so hot it is warming up the whole thing and basically no cooling is occurring. I can't think about it any more tonight. :headbonk:

 

[Brent302]

Yes i had max and the foot vents selected. It only helped the bottoms. The back seat has almost no gaps to get that air.

Running MAX AC disables floor cooling...Turning on dash with floor disables MAX AC

Also if your windows are down and it's a fairly hot day they are near useless in cooling top and back.

 

[Droid_Junky]

Running MAX AC disables floor cooling...Turning on dash with floor disables MAX AC

Also if your windows are down and it's a fairly hot day they are near useless in cooling top and back.

Ok... what I meant was the fan running at their max speed and set to feet. temp is also still at its max and says LO.

The only reason I tested it this way yesterday is because the MAX AC button blows right onto the seat fronts which makes it more difficult to feel the back heating up. Unless you stick your hand up the back of the seat and feel how warm it is getting.

I live in the south. If someone drives with their windows down it usually means their AC doesn't work. I only open my windows for the first 30 seconds after leaving work. Stays in the garage at home all night and the seats still don't cool even in the morning on the way to work.

 

[GT Pony]

Stays in the garage at home all night and the seats still don't cool even in the morning on the way to work.

Yep, when I did my test (Post #83), the car was in the garage and the ambient temperature was ~77 deg F. I fired up the car with AC off, and turned both seats to full cooling and only the bottoms got to full cool in 5 minutes. The tops didn't do anything as measured with an IR thermometer. The bottom units worked fine, so why didn't the top units in the same environment? It's not right.

I didn't feel the backside of the seat backs to see if they were getting warmer or not ... next time I test them out I'll check.

 

[Droid_Junky]

It went about as well as I expected. The service manager that greets you at the beginning made comments like "the backs aren't suppose to cool" but then said "I don't actually work on the cars" when I countered his comment with "why do they have the exact same wiring?"

To sum up what the guy that actually looked into said... besides replacing the unit there wasn't much he could do but since both sides are doing the same thing it was hard to justify it at this point. He said the climate control module is designed to shut it off if it overheats. He said the best thing to do is bring it to Ford's attention. The more people that go and follow up with Ford Service, the better chance they will look into it.

And the long story...

At first he tried to tell me that it was as good as it gets and even started to tell me that the bottom fan supplies air to the back seat as well... I shut that down when I asked how is that possible with the seat sections being separated and pointed out the second fan. Once I asked about the two fans and the peltier cooler he spent about 40 minutes looking at it with me there. Before I got out there with him all he had done was plug the computer in and scan it.

Looking at it from the laptop the cushion would almost immediately read 69 degrees. The back started out around 80 and settled at 86 for the short time he scanned. So the bottom decrease only a few degrees in that five minutes while the top stayed at 86. The difference in just a few minutes was 18 degrees. After that he started looking into air flow restrictions. I asked why do they work so much better in the trucks and he said probably because the backs are plastic and shaped in such as way so that air can get back there better.

He said that maybe opening up that flap at the bottom and placing something to hold it open would be a temporary solutions... We shouldn't have to do that. He has seen where the factory actual forgot to make an opening on the fan output which basically didn't allow the air to escape but didn't think that was the issue since you can feel a little air blowing.

I asked about unplugging the back. He printed out the wiring. There is only one plug for both. So you lose the feature altogether. The diagram clearly shows that the two fans have the same electrical components. From left to right it is the Peltier Element, sensor for measuring the temp and the fan motor.

So everyone that is unhappy take in so we can all get this resolved. At least contact ford service so it goes on record.

 

[GT Pony]

So I just did another test on the seat cooling performance. Car sitting in the garage with the windows down all night ... the whole interior is at 68 deg F (verified with IR thermometer).

Started the car in the garage, so still in the shade, the AC is off. Turned both seats to full cooling. After 5 minutes did measurements with the IR thermometer.

Both seats were the same:

Bottom sides @ 68 F
Bottom center where air blows out @ 62 F

Back sides @ 68 F
Back center where air blows out @ 70 F (slightly warmer)

If you lick the palm of your hand and put it over where the fan blows out on the seat back, you can definitely feel air flow ... so the flimsy duct is allowing air to pass at least when nobody is sitting in the seat.

I felt the back of the seat just where the top of the map pocket opening is and could feel a warm spot there with my hand, so the cooling unit is "active", but not putting out any cool air. Didn't measure with IR thermometer, but was warmer by feel.

The cooling units in the seat backs are defective. Ford need to address this and figure out what's the root cause and fix it. addle:

 

[GT Pony]

I asked about unplugging the back. He printed out the wiring. There is only one plug for both. So you lose the feature altogether.

Your 3rd photo in Post #113 looks like there is one big plug there for the unit in the seat back. The one plug powers both the fan and the cooling unit. The wiring diagram also shows an individual plug at each unit ... plug contains 7 wires, 3 for the fan and 4 for the cooler. Seems like you could unplug just the seat back unit from what I'm seeing.

Per the wiring diagrams you posted, it does however look like the fan motor power for the back is paralleled off the power wires for the cushion unit. So unplugging the cushion unit would kill the fans on both units. But it does look like you could unplug just the back unit and not effect the cushion unit.

 

[Droid_Junky]

Your 3rd photo in Post #113 looks like there is one big plug there for the unit in the seat back. The one plug powers both the fan and the cooling unit. The wiring diagram also shows an individual plug at each unit ... plug contains 7 wires, 3 for the fan and 4 for the cooler. Seems like you could unplug just the seat back unit from what I'm seeing.

Per the wiring diagrams you posted, it does however look like the fan motor power for the back is paralleled off the power wires for the cushion unit. So unplugging the cushion unit would kill the fans on both units. But it does look like you could unplug just the back unit and not effect the cushion unit.

It's actually two separate connections at the fan assembly. We didn't even try to unplug them. It's really tough just getting a good view of the fan. The only way I got the picture was because my phone has that voice activation. Visualize me practically on my head holding the phone inside the seat shouting "CHEESE"... :headbonk:

I won't say the seat backs are defective, just poorly designed. They were probably tested inside some building at Ford that is a constant 70 degrees. I know when I bough the car in November I tested the seats and they would get cold but it was also 50 degrees outside.

Looking at what I recorded with the IR thermometer on the seats and what his computer recorded shows that the readings are basically the same. Maybe a degree or two difference but when you are sitting in the seat it gets even warmer.

I do the same with my garage. It's fully insulated and I have a huge roll around AC unit. It has a plate with two vent tubes that sits in the window sill. I turn it on the night before, when I know I will be working out there the next day. I can get it down to the low 70's during the summer.

 

[GT Pony]

The only way I got the picture was because my phone has that voice activation. Visualize me practically on my head holding the phone inside the seat shouting "CHEESE"... :headbonk:

Good visual ... I can see it.

I won't say the seat backs are defective, just poorly designed. They were probably tested inside some building at Ford that is a constant 70 degrees. I know when I bough the car in November I tested the seats and they would get cold but it was also 50 degrees outside.

Looking at what I recorded with the IR thermometer on the seats and what his computer recorded shows that the readings are basically the same. Maybe a degree or two difference but when you are sitting in the seat it gets even warmer.

I tested mine with the interior at 70 def F this morning, and it being in a cooler environment didn't change anything from what I saw. What would be interesting is if the unit could be removed from the seat back and tested to see if it being closed up inside the seat back is the cause.

It's actually two separate connections at the fan assembly. We didn't even try to unplug them. It's really tough just getting a good view of the fan.

I think the connector that the red arrow is point to contains all the wires going to the unit in the seat back. You can see the wires spit off (3 to the fan) and 4 to the cooling unit. But it you disconnected the big connector it would kill the whole seat back unit.

 

[Droid_Junky]

Unplugging that plug causes both to not work. He did say that he thought that the climate control module would shut one off if the other failed.

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