Stock Rod Limit

[LeonBorden]

But again... Did the rod itself break, or did the rod bolts?

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[Ron@cp-e]

I don't think a rod breaking with more than 100 extra ft/lbs of torque over stock is a huge surprise
Well I should say I'm not surprised

 

[greg hazlett]

What software do you use to tune and what rpm was it at on the dyno when it let go?

 

[Ron@cp-e]

I have been a little quiet on here the last few months as we got moved into our new shop and got settled as well as Ecoboost Mustang testing.

I have been testing our EB shop car hard lately and pushing it as far as possible, and unfortunately a little too far. It lost a rod at 420 ft/lbs. I wanted to share this information with the forum so that others will not experience the same loss I did.

We will be pulling the motor over the next few days and preparing a new more robust one to power our car. It's going to be nice not to worry about that bottom end anymore.

I will try to answer any questions you guys may have.

I have a few questions
Do you think the tune itself could be part of the rod failure or have there been multiple rod failures at that power/tq level?
Which would conclude the rod breaking on your test car being an anomaly or expected for all once exceeding 400 ft/lbs of torque

 

[greg hazlett]

What number rod was it and was it the last one to receive fuel?

 

[EcoSwag1990]

Was the torque management turned off? this is something that Bama did with their recent V2 tune and it didn't really sound like a good idea to me

 

[Ron@cp-e]

What number rod was it and was it the last one to receive fuel?

with 2000psi of fuel pressure I'd highly doubt fuel starve was a component of this rod failure

just adding my .02 - carry on :headbonk:

 

[greg hazlett]

with 2000psi of fuel pressure I'd highly doubt fuel starve was a component of this rod failure

just adding my .02 - carry on :headbonk:

You never know what was adjusted in the tune and when something goes that could have been heat related....just asking.....

 

[mbreinin]

Which rod let go?

There are more of these out there than people know. I applaud you for your honesty.

Mike

 

[BGolden]

I don't mean to speak for LMS but they said in a post they don't deviate from the stock boost levels. I'm sure LMS will speak up. Especially if I'm mistaken.

This thread is about our (RIP Tuning) findings. And we will share everything we find out to help the community.

That seems like not that much power to be losing a rod that comes forged from the factory. What kind of torcher testing were you doing for that to happen? I will always be skeptical when it comes to statments like this unless i was there and saw it for myself. especially when aftermarket companies are going to be making and looking to sell there aftermarket internals and piston & rod kits. Im not saying it did happen or trying to call anybody out im just saying im skeptical.. ill wait for FORD to do there testing and come out with there tune and see what they come up with first!

Torcher testing? Dyno pulls and tons of street pulls as the track isn't open yet. The car would walk our 14 gt. I am posting my findings to help others. We are not here to just sell parts. We are here to help the community.

But again... Did the rod itself break, or did the rod bolts?

Its a rod not a bolt. A rod bolt isn't going to do the damage we are seeing.

What software do you use to tune and what rpm was it at on the dyno when it let go?

Software is not a concern as we have used 3 different softwares with this car since Nov 2014 testing. I don't want this to turn into a software debate online as to others opinions. This was our race tune that is not offered to the public. The car isn't going to make 400 ft/lbs of torque at stock boost levels no matter what mods you install. We were looking to go 11's before TX2K15 but that may not be possible now.

 

[TheZman]

29psi is a lot though. Doesn't the livernois tune top out at 18-19psi?

Yes thats what i was thinking also.. 29.5 psi is a crap ton of boost to be testing and pushing the engine to its limits with.. And he even said they were pushing it hard alot.. was that with boost control off as well? gheesh... Im still going to be a little skeptical until i see more proof and also wait to see what FORD comes up with this year. Look at the 2.0 focus ST FORDS tune for that gives it 90 ft lbs of tq! No problems with that engine!!! Hard to believe the new 2.3 with forged rods from the factory blew with only 100ft lbs more! Im going to keep a close eye on this one! Also going to wait to here from livernois on this as well. But 29.5 psi of boost is questionable amount of boost to be testing any engine with!

 

[Vinny@JLTPerformance]

Coming from the import tuning world hearing what boost levels these cars are running "tuned" this isn't surprising to me.

Running 25+ psi on pump gas in my opinion is a ticking time bomb. Forged is a pretty general word thrown around, you can buy a forged rods from $200 to $2000+. No idea what the quality of rod/Rod bolts Ford used in these engines.

 

[Juben]

Here's the thing, this was a stock turbo with a stock FMIC. Even on race gas, that's nuts to run that much boost on that tiny little turbo as that's way out of it's efficiency range. I'd bet that charge air temps was through the roof, and you can't control detonation like that. Wow...

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

[BGolden]

I have a few questions
Do you think the tune itself could be part of the rod failure or have there been multiple rod failures at that power/tq level?
Which would conclude the rod breaking on your test car being an anomaly or expected for all once exceeding 400 ft/lbs of torque

I do not believe the tune to be an issue. The ECU was still adding a degree of timing when it let go. I personally believe the way that the rod design is not intended to be pushed much past the factory limits.

I will not push a customer car to 400 ft/lbs. I am going to stay below 370 IMO.

What number rod was it and was it the last one to receive fuel?

Looks to be 1

Was the torque management turned off? this is something that Bama did with their recent V2 tune and it didn't really sound like a good idea to me

yes trq management was off as this was a race tune it was on VP MS101

Yes thats what i was thinking also.. 29.5 psi is a crap ton of boost to be testing and pushing the engine to its limits with.. And he even said they were pushing it hard alot.. was that with boost control off as well? gheesh... Im still going to be a little skeptical until i see more proof and also wait to see what FORD comes up with this year. Look at the 2.0 focus ST FORDS tune for that gives it 90 ft lbs of tq! No problems with that engine!!! Hard to believe the new 2.3 with forged rods from the factory blew with only 100ft lbs more! Im going to keep a close eye on this one! Also going to wait to here from livernois on this as well. But 29.5 psi of boost is questionable amount of boost to be testing any engine with!

Boost control was not off. I had complete control of the boost. I have been running it this way for a week. The track was supposed to open last friday here but did not due to weather. I was looking to run 11's and push the car to its limits to do that. However I found the limits before we got to the track.

Everyone wants to see fast track times. Sometimes things like this happen when you are pushing the envelope. We are going to share success and failures. I don't see this as a failure but a learning experience. Its better with my motor than a customers.

 

[TheZman]

I do not believe the tune to be an issue. The ECU was still adding a degree of timing when it let go. I personally believe the way that the rod design is not intended to be pushed much past the factory limits.

I will not push a customer car to 400 ft/lbs. I am going to stay below 370 IMO.


Looks to be 1



yes trq management was off as this was a race tune it was on VP MS101



Boost control was not off. I had complete control of the boost. I have been running it this way for a week. The track was supposed to open last friday here but did not due to weather. I was looking to run 11's and push the car to its limits to do that. However I found the limits before we got to the track.

Everyone wants to see fast track times. Sometimes things like this happen when you are pushing the envelope. We are going to share success and failures. I don't see this as a failure but a learning experience. Its better with my motor than a customers.

Any pics?

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