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Schwerin

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Didn't the original Dark Horse basically equal the Mach 1?
Yup, the DH and Mach1 both fell short of the GT350, and in a recent race, of all 3 in manual trim the GT350 was a clear winner. I kind of understood them not wanting the "Mustang" Mach1(which lets be real was mostly the Bullitt and PPL2 packages combined and a few Shelby bits added in) to not pass the Full Ford Performance GT350 yet, but that excuse does NOT exist for the Dark Horse. They simply dropped the ball on that. Maybe if they didn't give it that stupid semi-glass eye liner and waste money on un-needed upgraded internals they could have given it the 20-30HP more it should have had to put it over the GT350 and properly establish a name for itself. Instead, it just became a good reason to get a GT350 or Mach1.
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Schwerin

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That is sad. Curious that they gave it a face lift and the Precision package option right before sendoff.
That's less odd than Ford redesigning the Escort ZX2 front bumper, inner turn lights, wheels, in-dash radio and adding two 1 year only paint options for it's final run in 2003. Was an odd amount of R&D to put into a car that was already known to be in its last year.
 

80FoxCoupe

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that’s a terrible argument.

let’s say the GT was the highest tier at launch. And then just now the basic dark horse comes out.

you complain. Then someone comes along and says “if the DH did not exist, you are ok with tje GT as the top obtainable model?

terrible argument.

ford muddled things really bad with the Gtd. That really should have been the current gt500. And should not cost anywhere near w
Hat it does. It’s ridiculous. It’s all old off the shelf tech. And the suspension is from the old Camaro z28. So now we get some dark horse with an old gt500 drivetrain and we are supposed to be grateful or something?

consider that new ford factory top tiers outperform existing tuner models and look better too.

except now it’s backwards. Tje Shelby super snske is more powerful than the Gtd, so is the rtr spec 5.

the rtr is 870 hp, which I suspect the dhsc to just barely surpass at 875 or so bevause they have to now or they’ll look lame.

it’s just a case of ford not doing much at all. Basically the least they could get away with. They’d have done less if rtr didn’t exist.

you don’t look at a new car and say “well, it’s not worse than the old one.” It should have serious appeal. Consider the 2016 gt350. A tour de force in its category. The 2020 gt500? Unbelievable monster pushing the mustang to unheard of heights.

this car? “Hey, you could just be stuck with the base dark horse, so be happy.”

The heck is that?
No thanks. If Chevy can push the base c8 and z06 to such heights as affordable as they are for what you get, Ford could do way. Way better. But instead we get “hey, who cares about that stuff? we got a unobtainium Gtd and great off-road.”

Meanwhile Chevy spanked the Gtd hard for way less money and dodge is causing earthquakes with the new trx and v8 plans.
Come on ford.
I understand your position and value your opinion. Ford's job 1 (I know, that's gold right there) is to make money. Ford only produces one car, the mustang. The mustang is 1% of units sold year over year by volume. Ford makes 4.5 million units per year, the mustang being .009% of that number at 44000 units. They must pull resources from other areas of the business to fund an effort that is a losing proposition (performance vehicles). Developing and selling 4000 top trim performance cars per year is like throwing money in the trash. So at the end of the day, appreciating what is available is a viable option. Assuming Ford should take a bigger bath to produce something that very, very few people want like GM did then that's the wrong assumption. Ford will make 4xxx of the DHSC per year and they will sell all of them fast just as the gt500 did. The beauty of the options we have is that if Fords options do not suit you, you can buy a zr1x. I can't wait to see what color you get!
 

UpACurb

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Yup, the DH and Mach1 both fell short of the GT350, and in a recent race, of all 3 in manual trim the GT350 was a clear winner. I kind of understood them not wanting the "Mustang" Mach1(which lets be real was mostly the Bullitt and PPL2 packages combined and a few Shelby bits added in) to not pass the Full Ford Performance GT350 yet, but that excuse does NOT exist for the Dark Horse. They simply dropped the ball on that. Maybe if they didn't give it that stupid semi-glass eye liner and waste money on un-needed upgraded internals they could have given it the 20-30HP more it should have had to put it over the GT350 and properly establish a name for itself. Instead, it just became a good reason to get a GT350 or Mach1.
Even if the Dark Horse was faster I wouldn’t trade … it’s not that the Dark Horse is bad …. Just that the VooDoo is that good …
 

MAGS1

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I understand your position and value your opinion. Ford's job 1 (I know, that's gold right there) is to make money. Ford only produces one car, the mustang. The mustang is 1% of units sold year over year by volume. Ford makes 4.5 million units per year, the mustang being .009% of that number at 44000 units. They must pull resources from other areas of the business to fund an effort that is a losing proposition (performance vehicles). Developing and selling 4000 top trim performance cars per year is like throwing money in the trash. So at the end of the day, appreciating what is available is a viable option. Assuming Ford should take a bigger bath to produce something that very, very few people want like GM did then that's the wrong assumption. Ford will make 4xxx of the DHSC per year and they will sell all of them fast just as the gt500 did. The beauty of the options we have is that if Fords options do not suit you, you can buy a zr1x. I can't wait to see what color you get!
That’s kinda where I’m at as well. Should we want/expect more from Ford for the icon that is Mustang? Sure. But the reality is pretty clear. Mustang sales are a fraction of what they were even 10 years ago. The market has changed whether anyone wants to admit it or not. At this point, I’m happy that Ford continues to produce Mustang and gives several options to appease as many people as possible.

Camaro is gone (again), GM is sunsetting the Blackwing, Dodge claims it’s bringing back the Hellcat (and maybe the NA Hemi as well) but how is that going to price and have the buyers of those cars already moved on to something else? TBD on that but it’s not like Charger/Challenger sales were off the charts before they were effectively killed off (at least the Charger/Challenger that we were accustomed to, not that new EV or I6 garbage).
 

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80FoxCoupe

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That’s kinda where I’m at as well. Should we want/expect more from Ford for the icon that is Mustang? Sure. But the reality is pretty clear. Mustang sales are a fraction of what they were even 10 years ago. The market has changed whether anyone wants to admit it or not. At this point, I’m happy that Ford continues to produce Mustang and gives several options to appease as many people as possible.

Camaro is gone (again), GM is sunsetting the Blackwing, Dodge claims it’s bringing back the Hellcat (and maybe the NA Hemi as well) but how is that going to price and have the buyers of those cars already moved on to something else? TBD on that but it’s not like Charger/Challenger sales were off the charts before they were effectively killed off (at least the Charger/Challenger that we were accustomed to, not that new EV or I6 garbage).
The mustang has come a long way as we all know, especially in the last 20yrs. When the 03 cobra came out, everyone was jocking it. Today a base gt will destroy it. Some think that 5 years after the 2020 gt500 debuts the mustang should evolve into a supercar. Is the DHSC a parts bin car? Sure I'll go with it, but it's a pretty nice one.
 

Joshinator99

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I understand your position and value your opinion. Ford's job 1 (I know, that's gold right there) is to make money. Ford only produces one car, the mustang. The mustang is 1% of units sold year over year by volume. Ford makes 4.5 million units per year, the mustang being .009% of that number at 44000 units. They must pull resources from other areas of the business to fund an effort that is a losing proposition (performance vehicles). Developing and selling 4000 top trim performance cars per year is like throwing money in the trash. So at the end of the day, appreciating what is available is a viable option. Assuming Ford should take a bigger bath to produce something that very, very few people want like GM did then that's the wrong assumption. Ford will make 4xxx of the DHSC per year and they will sell all of them fast just as the gt500 did. The beauty of the options we have is that if Fords options do not suit you, you can buy a zr1x. I can't wait to see what color you get!
The mustang has come a long way as we all know, especially in the last 20yrs. When the 03 cobra came out, everyone was jocking it. Today a base gt will destroy it. Some think that 5 years after the 2020 gt500 debuts the mustang should evolve into a supercar. Is the DHSC a parts bin car? Sure I'll go with it, but it's a pretty nice one.
Very well said. Some may not like the looks or have other quibbles (valid or not), but the botttom line is the DH SC will be a more powerful and likely more capable track car than any production Mustang, ever (GTD excepted of course). We should be glad the car exists in 2026 given how things were looking for performance cars just a couple of years ago. If it doesn’t sell, Ford’s bean counters will point to it and say “See, performance cars don’t sell. Have another SUV or EV.” And you have to give Ford credit for keeping the Mustang alive unlike GM who throws in the towel on the Camaro whenever they feel like it.
 

9secondko

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I understand your position and value your opinion. Ford's job 1 (I know, that's gold right there) is to make money. Ford only produces one car, the mustang. The mustang is 1% of units sold year over year by volume. Ford makes 4.5 million units per year, the mustang being .009% of that number at 44000 units. They must pull resources from other areas of the business to fund an effort that is a losing proposition (performance vehicles). Developing and selling 4000 top trim performance cars per year is like throwing money in the trash. So at the end of the day, appreciating what is available is a viable option. Assuming Ford should take a bigger bath to produce something that very, very few people want like GM did then that's the wrong assumption. Ford will make 4xxx of the DHSC per year and they will sell all of them fast just as the gt500 did. The beauty of the options we have is that if Fords options do not suit you, you can buy a zr1x. I can't wait to see what color you get!
thanks. value you too.

we need to be real honest about fords goal here.
the first thing you learn in business admin is that business exists to make money.

there are two main ways to do so:
1. Volume.
2. Profit margin.

you sell enough cheap stuff, you profit. You sell a few unobtaniums, you profit.

but if you’re really smart, you sell a lot of rightly priced items and make bank.

how to you get there? Again two things: proper investment in your product (make it what it needs to be with efficient production) and consumer enthusiasm.

the reason this Mustang generation is considered a failure is due to lack of enthusasm, more so than any other generation. That’s because this gen is just last gen with a new coat of paint and some sticker swaps followed by inexplicable price increases. I other words, we don't have enthusiasm because we sense the lack of investment.

people are more informed than ever. They know the s650 is just an s550 and that ford just gave it a facelift and snorkels. They also know that ford save big time money by not investing in a new car. And they also know that ford is charging them AS IF they did make that investment.

the idea that not using heritage nameplates is somehow “futuristic” is also nonsense. We want a futuristic vehicle with a recognizable and beloved nameplate That we can compare and contrast to earlier years of the same model.

COBRA or BOSS? Heck yes. But those names require proper investment. They’d need to be much greater than this.

and that's where Ford isn't even making business sense. Playing it safe isn't the way to go. Because Ford makes lots of enthusiast vehicles. But now they're making them less enthusiastic.

Especially with the Mustang, which has been just one really long generation in effect. the 650 is basically a facelift as the 2018 was).

Ford customers don't live in a box. We look around and see what the competition is doing and honestly? We're getting a tiny bit jealous. It's really hard being told a Mustang GTD isn't a Mustang, but that its really a race car that has been made street legal. What a load of you know what. It's just a Mustang with a body kit and the old Camaro Z28 suspension. And then they sell if for Lamborghini money - only to watch it miss its Porsche target and also get spankied by the regular ZR1. Chevy could shoot for the stars with the vet, but Ford can't even touch it with a far more expensive car that they shipped off to Multimatic? For has the ability. Apparently the vision is shortsighted. That's a leadership issue.

The reason Ford isn't selling Mustangs very well is that they haven't made the new ones a great car to buy. You're spending crazy money and getting a pretty good car that's basically an old S550 with some improvements. What???

So let's just factor that everyone here knows that Ford needs to make money as any business does.

Somehow Dodge is over there ramping up a serious v8 investment in its (actually) all new Charger platform and bringing a fire breathing monster of a TRX, chevy is doing amazing things with the vette, and we get overpriced yesteryear that got beat with an ugly stick? And we are supposed to be all "take my money!" And when that don't work, we're supposed to be happy ford has Broncos? Say it aint so.

Something aint right. We thought it would get better when Hackett was gone. Guess there is more to this season than we thought. Hope it gets sorted soon.

Wish I would have bought the 2020 GT500 but I waited, thinking something special was coming with S650. Don't want to be an old man before I have a Mustang I'm crazy about (that I can actually buy).

It's really not that hard to know what customers want and build it. It just requires some people antithetical to that to go work somewhere else.
 
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themik99

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The DCT was a primary reason I was interested in the GT500. That car would have been half as usable with a manual, as will be the case with the DHSC.

And I'm a die hard manual guy for the most part...
Same here!

I am curious if any of the carbon brake parts are backwards compatible. Might be worth upgrading...
 
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Franky16

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Haven't read through any of this thread but I think the dark horse sc is sick. Id love to have 1 but im guessing they will be over 100k and going for 20 over plus
 

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thanks. value you too.

we need to be real honest about fords goal here.
the first thing you learn in business admin is that business exists to make money.

there are two main ways to do so:
1. Volume.
2. Profit margin.

you sell enough cheap stuff, you profit. You sell a few unobtaniums, you profit.

but if you’re really smart, you sell a lot of rightly priced items and make bank.

how to you get there? Again two things: proper investment in your product (make it what it needs to be with efficient production) and consumer enthusiasm.

the reason this Mustang generation is considered a failure is due to lack of enthusasm, more so than any other generation. That’s because this gen is just last gen with a new coat of paint and some sticker swaps followed by inexplicable price increases. I other words, we don't have enthusiasm because we sense the lack of investment.

people are more informed than ever. They know the s650 is just an s550 and that ford just gave it a facelift and snorkels. They also know that ford save big time money by not investing in a new car. And they also know that ford is charging them AS IF they did make that investment.

the idea that not using heritage nameplates is somehow “futuristic” is also nonsense. We want a futuristic vehicle with a recognizable and beloved nameplate That we can compare and contrast to earlier years of the same model.

COBRA or BOSS? Heck yes. But those names require proper investment. They’d need to be much greater than this.

and that's where Ford isn't even making business sense. Playing it safe isn't the way to go. Because Ford makes lots of enthusiast vehicles. But now they're making them less enthusiastic.

Especially with the Mustang, which has been just one really long generation in effect. the 650 is basically a facelift as the 2018 was).

Ford customers don't live in a box. We look around and see what the competition is doing and honestly? We're getting a tiny bit jealous. It's really hard being told a Mustang GTD isn't a Mustang, but that its really a race car that has been made street legal. What a load of you know what. It's just a Mustang with a body kit and the old Camaro Z28 suspension. And then they sell if for Lamborghini money - only to watch it miss its Porsche target and also get spankied by the regular ZR1. Chevy could shoot for the stars with the vet, but Ford can't even touch it with a far more expensive car that they shipped off to Multimatic? For has the ability. Apparently the vision is shortsighted. That's a leadership issue.

The reason Ford isn't selling Mustangs very well is that they haven't made the new ones a great car to buy. You're spending crazy money and getting a pretty good car that's basically an old S550 with some improvements. What???

So let's just factor that everyone here knows that Ford needs to make money as any business does.

Somehow Dodge is over there ramping up a serious v8 investment in its (actually) all new Charger platform and bringing a fire breathing monster of a TRX, chevy is doing amazing things with the vette, and we get overpriced yesteryear that got beat with an ugly stick? And we are supposed to be all "take my money!" And when that don't work, we're supposed to be happy ford has Broncos? Say it aint so.

Something aint right. We thought it would get better when Hackett was gone. Guess there is more to this season than we thought. Hope it gets sorted soon.

Wish I would have bought the 2020 GT500 but I waited, thinking something special was coming with S650. Don't want to be an old man before I have a Mustang I'm crazy about (that I can actually buy).

It's really not that hard to know what customers want and build it. It just requires some people antithetical to that to go work somewhere else.
I think this sums it up pretty well. I like the GTD, but if investment funds are so limited for Mustang I would rather that money have gone to a S650 version of the GT350, or to things making the DH SC a more unique vehicle.

Overall I agree too that S650 sales aren’t that great because there isn’t much reason to move on from a S550 to one. I doubt the DH SC or GTD move the needle much in that regard. Ford might need some new blood on Team Mustang.
 

Bullittproof

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Is it me or did Ford make the front end look even more like a truck? I thought S650 was bad enough but WOW. The exhaust tips are cool. But we all knew it was going to be a rebodied GT500. However the 2020 GT500 had the best designed front end.
one thing i notice is the ‘line’ (is it a seam? an illusion?) set-in several inches across the front of the hood…this is an S550 styling cue for sure…if they want to offer a special edition, pull out the S550 stamping dies and build it old school, classic Mustang interior and all…
…this would at the same time allow anybody who missed the opportunity to purchase an S550 another chance to do so !
 

robvas

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I think people wanted something new

not the same car as before

if it would have been a turbo 5.0/5.2 car instead of supercharged, everyone would have been happy
 

wingnutt

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if it would have been a turbo 5.0/5.2 car instead of supercharged, everyone would have been happy
I’ll give ya that one…I’m absolutely not in the market for another Mustang, but totally am in for a turbo v8 🏎
 

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You don't want that to be the only option .. it doesn't handle big power well.
I think its a cool car. Unfortunately it will probably be really expensive. Hopefully that DCT makes it way down to the normal GTs one day.
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