Pulled over in california for not having cats

[K4fxd]

He then goes on to explain more about how it works. I learned something new as well.

I found that interview and I learned some things too. I'd love to pick his brain. I also now have a better understanding why it learns E% even with a massive vacuum leak.

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[DevonTK]

I had the cats welded on earlier and check engine light has stayed off so far. Will be installing fuel system for e85 this weekend. We will see how well they do.

 

[engineermike]

Why wouldnt it? You get the mixture ratios right and boom, it works. Lots of information on what ratios work with the various alcohol blends. Just have to know how to apply them via tuning.

The Ford engineers did some amazing things in the Gen3 Coyote flex fuel logic. It modulates a ton of things based on learned % ethanol, such as borderline spark timing and stoichiometry obviously, but also load limits, wot lambda, min lambda, EGT, gdi blend, gdi fuel pressure, calculated torque, MBT, knock threshold, knock retard amount, and about a dozen cold start enrichment tables including cranking GDI blend. It also blends these parameters at different rates. For instance, a little bit of ethanol does a lot for knock resistance but not much to cold starting, so the influence can be adjusted based on what aspect we are modifying.

Problems that are commonly worried about are:

1. "What if I switch fuels and floor it before it learns the new fuel, resulting in lean condition or high timing?" Well, my friend on E85 reflashed and didn't realize the KAM had reset his alcohol to 10%. He immediately floored it, ST fuel trims went to 30+, but it never went lean. Timing was nice and low too. In the other direction, what I've learned is that it takes about 10 minutes of normal driving for the new fuel to fully purge the lines. The logic learns as it purges. If you switch from E85 to gasoline and floor it immediately leaving the gas station, there is a possibility that it purges the lines and hits the engine with gasoline before it unlearns the ethanol. In that case, the knock sensors should sense the knock and pull timing, but I'm not totally satisfied with that, so I drive "normal" for the first 10 minutes after switching to gas. I also tune it to only add timing if learned ethanol is over about 50%. That way, it pulls the timing the instant it learns 49% or less, and also I know from the A/F ratio gauge when it goes below 12 or 12.5 then the extra timing is in. Not to mention, unless you run the E85 down to 0, you still usually wind up with E30 on the initial tank when switching to gas, and it has pretty dang good anti-knock properties anyway.

2. "An air leak could fool it into thinking it has E85 when it doesn't." Ford was pretty smart about this because air leaks could affect emissions diagnostics, and they can't risk it messing this up. If it develops an air leak after learned ethanol% has matured, it will affect STFT which transfers to LTFT which then sets a code if it goes high enough. The ethanol% should mature within 10 minutes of a refuel so the vast majority of time, the air leak detection works as it should. During learning, LTFT are locked at previous values. The only case I can think of to worry about is if it develops an air leak after initiating a fill-up but before the learned ethanol% matures and "locks in".

3. "My learned ethanol% prematurely locks in, before the new fuel reaches the engine on a fuel switch, so it learns the wrong fuel until the next refuel." This is a legitimate concern on the Gen3 because Ford defaulted the fuel system volumes to 0 lb in the Mustang, so it doesn't delay maturing of the learned ethanol. You can't access this parameter in hptuners, so most commercial tuners miss it and have this problem. PCMTec has access to it and once it's correctly populated, it works how it should.

 

[Buldawg76]

Pretty sure Tay Tay's private jet pollutes more than a catless car but she still gets to fly to all of Kelce's home games.

OL swiftie can kiss My AXX for "her rules for thee not for me" attitude.

BD

 

[MAGS1]

OL swiftie can kiss My AXX for "her rules for thee not for me" attitude.

BD

She isn’t the only one. All those billionaires with their private jets and private yachts. Heck, the amount of flights that most of our politicians take is insane. They’re just as big a part of the problem

 

[Robottrainer]

The Ford engineers did some amazing things in the Gen3 Coyote flex fuel logic. It modulates a ton of things based on learned % ethanol, such as borderline spark timing and stoichiometry obviously, but also load limits, wot lambda, min lambda, EGT, gdi blend, gdi fuel pressure, calculated torque, MBT, knock threshold, knock retard amount, and about a dozen cold start enrichment tables including cranking GDI blend. It also blends these parameters at different rates. For instance, a little bit of ethanol does a lot for knock resistance but not much to cold starting, so the influence can be adjusted based on what aspect we are modifying.

Problems that are commonly worried about are:

1. "What if I switch fuels and floor it before it learns the new fuel, resulting in lean condition or high timing?" Well, my friend on E85 reflashed and didn't realize the KAM had reset his alcohol to 10%. He immediately floored it, ST fuel trims went to 30+, but it never went lean. Timing was nice and low too. In the other direction, what I've learned is that it takes about 10 minutes of normal driving for the new fuel to fully purge the lines. The logic learns as it purges. If you switch from E85 to gasoline and floor it immediately leaving the gas station, there is a possibility that it purges the lines and hits the fuel with gasoline before it unlearns the ethanol. In that case, the knock sensors should sense the knock and pull timing, but I'm not totally satisfied with that, so I drive "normal" for the first 10 minutes after switching to gas. I also tune it to only add timing if learned ethanol is over about 50%. That way, it pulls the timing the instant it learns 49% or less, and also I know from the A/F ratio gauge when it goes below 12 or 12.5 then the extra timing is in. Not to mention, unless you run the E85 down to 0, you still usually wind up with E30 on the initial tank when switching to gas, and it has pretty dang good anti-knock properties anyway.

2. "An air leak could fool it into thinking it has E85 when it doesn't." Ford was pretty smart about this because air leaks could affect emissions diagnostics, and they can't risk it messing this up. If it develops an air leak after learned ethanol% has matured, it will affect STFT which transfers to LTFT which then sets a code if it goes high enough. The ethanol% should mature within 10 minutes of a refuel so the vast majority of time, the air leak detection works as it should. During learning, LTFT are locked at previous values. The only case I can think of to worry about is if it develops an air leak after initiating a fill-up but before the learned ethanol% matures and "locks in".

3. "My learned ethanol% prematurely locks in, before the new fuel reaches the engine on a fuel switch, so it learns the wrong fuel until the next refuel." This is a legitimate concern on the Gen3 because Ford defaulted the fuel system volumes to 0 lb in the Mustang, so it doesn't delay maturing of the learned ethanol. You can't access this parameter in hptuners, so most commercial tuners miss it and have this problem. PCMTec has access to it and once it's correctly populated, it works how it should.

Great write up!

 

[Buldawg76]

Half of Cali's pollution comes from China and India burning of coal and fossil fuel carried across the pacific, that is not going to change any time soon. So, nothing that CARB or Cali does will ever make any difference.

BD

 

[K4fxd]

The only case I can think of to worry about is if it develops an air leak after initiating a fill-up but before the learned ethanol% matures and "locks in".

I tested this on a gen 2. I filled the tank with E85 and at the same time pulled the vacuum hose off the PCV valve. I fired the car up and drove off. I drove until it locked in and it locked 3% off what I calculated it should.

The only worry I have is if you leave the car running and fill with a different fuel, it will take a long time to correct. The fuel trims should catch this. I have not tried this as I always turn off the car when fueling.

 

[Robottrainer]

Half of Cali's pollution comes from China and India burning of coal and fossil fuel carried across the pacific, that is not going to change any time soon. So, nothing that CARB or Cali does will ever make any difference.

BD

It's making someone or someones rich.

 

[luc]

Half of Cali's pollution comes from China and India burning of coal and fossil fuel carried across the pacific, that is not going to change any time soon. So, nothing that CARB or Cali does will ever make any difference.

BD

Always interested in facts , do you have any data, scientific evidences, etc, to back up your statement or you’re just voicing your opinion and try to pass it as a fact?
And btw, your statement is contradictory and make no sense: if only 50% come from china/india, obviously the other 50% matter big time and therefore can make a big difference
I love people that pretend to know what they are talking about but can’t even formulate their opinion

 

[Paul McWhiskey]

It's making someone or someones rich.

Start with Willie Brown and follow the money trail.

 

[Buldawg76]

Always interested in facts , do you have any data, scientific evidences, etc, to back up your statement or you’re just voicing your opinion and try to pass it as a fact?
And btw, your statement is contradictory and make no sense: if only 50% come from china/india, obviously the other 50% matter big time and therefore can make a big difference
I love people that pretend to know what they are talking about but can’t even formulate their opinion

Air pollution in Asia is wafting into the USA, increasing smog in West (usatoday.com)

Make your own opinion on what is and is not true or facts.

I have mine and no one is going to change what I believe to be true, or facts based on what I have read and lived in life. Maybe I get the numbers a bit off since some of what I have read is years ago but CARB and those in charge of Cali do not care about the people only how much money they can squeeze from the gullible.

The fires in LA are a perfect example of incompetent leadership and poor management of recourses that could have prevented disastrous losses for hundreds of thousands.

Two weeks ago, after a rainstorm here in Bama overnight I woke up to my car covered in what appeared to be ashes covering my car like someone dumped a 5 gallon bucket of it on the car and was clearly carried in the Santa anna winds and jet stream across the country all the way to the east coast.

So, you do you and I will do me and just be glad we live where we can agree to disagree without reprisal or repercussions.

I am still waiting for the ice age that was said to occur back in the 70s and 80s to materialize and now its global warming since the climate alarmist got it wrong with the ice age it must be going the opposite direction and warming now. Funny how the recording of the last 400 years of weather trends and storm activity show that in the 1850s there were warmer temps and more intense storms than we have seen in the last decade. Climate goes in cycles and always has and always will regardless of what man does. There were no vehicle emission present in the 1850s in terms of carbon/CO2 production, so I guess all the pig and cow farts created excess methane gasses to warm the atmosphere.

BD

 

[Robottrainer]

Air pollution in Asia is wafting into the USA, increasing smog in West (usatoday.com)

Make your own opinion on what is and is not true or facts.

I have mine and no one is going to change what I believe to be true, or facts based on what I have read and lived in life. Maybe I get the numbers a bit off since some of what I have read is years ago but CARB and those in charge of Cali do not care about the people only how much money they can squeeze from the gullible.

The fires in LA are a perfect example of incompetent leadership and poor management of recourses that could have prevented disastrous losses for hundreds of thousands.

Two weeks ago, after a rainstorm here in Bama overnight I woke up to my car covered in what appeared to be ashes covering my car like someone dumped a 5 gallon bucket of it on the car and was clearly carried in the Santa anna winds and jet stream across the country all the way to the east coast.

So, you do you and I will do me and just be glad we live where we can agree to disagree without reprisal or repercussions.

I am still waiting for the ice age that was said to occur back in the 70s and 80s to materialize and now its global warming since the climate alarmist got it wrong with the ice age it must be going the opposite direction and warming now. Funny how the recording of the last 400 years of weather trends and storm activity show that in the 1850s there were warmer temps and more intense storms than we have seen in the last decade. Climate goes in cycles and always has and always will regardless of what man does. There were no vehicle emission present in the 1850s in terms of carbon/CO2 production, so I guess all the pig and cow farts created excess methane gasses to warm the atmosphere.

BD

It puzzles me why one must use oem components even if the aftermarket ones do the same or a better job. If the objective is clean air, what does it matter how it's achieved? It appears disingenuous to me.

 

[luc]

It puzzles me why one must use oem components even if the aftermarket ones do the same or a better job. If the objective is clean air, what does it matter how it's achieved? It appears disingenuous to me.

The issue is that most aftermarket parts do not make the same or better job
The ones that does can be legal for sales and get a carb exemption
Problem is that very few manufacturers go through the certification process because it’s cumbersome and expensive

 

[Robottrainer]

The issue is that most aftermarket parts do not make the same or better job
The ones that does can be legal for sales and get a carb exemption
Problem is that very few manufacturers go through the certification process because it’s cumbersome and expensive

The Gensi Gen 2 UHO are far superior to the OEM and function to OEM standards since they have an EPA number, however some laws state that only OEM emissions parts can be used. This has nothing to do with environment if that's the case.

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