NGOT8R
Well-Known Member
Yessir! I ran like that on my first three nitrous setups, only difference is I used NOS Octane Boost.
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So got a reply back from Nitrous Express. They say before the MAF with specific instructions.
And upon further researching, the PCM is more than capable to compensate.
And upon further researching, the PCM is more than capable to compensate.
engineermike
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To be clear, NX is recommending a dry kit?
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They didn't recommend anything, I asked about a particular kit.
2nd Reply from NX for my follow-up question about placement:
" The system will come with a nozzle adapter to use and would drill for it, then would install the nozzle. That would be more than safe being 10in (before) away from the MAF. I'm here to help so any questions or concerns just shoot an email or ring the shop. "
K4fxd
Well-Known Member
So like you said Mike.
I haven't measured do we have 10 inches before the MAF without going beyond the filter?
I'll have to rack my brain on this because the MAF will read the mass of the gas (air and N2o) passing it. This density will not account for the added O2 in the N2o. So will still get a lean dip on the hit.
Just ramblin
I haven't measured do we have 10 inches before the MAF without going beyond the filter?
I'll have to rack my brain on this because the MAF will read the mass of the gas (air and N2o) passing it. This density will not account for the added O2 in the N2o. So will still get a lean dip on the hit.
Just ramblin
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NGOT8R
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You could use one of these and you would have your 10” or more from the MAF meter. They come in different sizes too S, M or L.
https://nitrousoutlet.com/products/...ring-small-cone-air-filter-end-entry-3-3-4-od
engineermike
Well-Known Member
So NX is recommending a dry shot with the nozzle far upstream of the MAF, which is just what I said (the least bad way to do it).
If we play this out from a controls standpoint, the MAF sensor will read the additional mass flow, which is a good thing and just what you'd want it to do. It might not be super accurate as K4fxd said, but for argument's sake lets assume it is accurate.
The first thing that happens in the logic is the mass airflow is converted to load. Load is a factor of the actual mass of air in the cylinder divided by the mass of air in a full cylinder at standard temperature and pressure. It's a pretty simple conversion: load = MAF/rpm/4/.0017. The load is then used in thousands of places for countless reasons including fueling. Most stock Coyotes can hover around 1.0 load at max torque, which is pretty impressive, but also depends heavily on ambient conditions.
So, let's say you add a 75 dry shot. At 4000 rpm at a load of 1.0 NA, that would increase the load to about 1.25. The logic would interpret this exactly the same as it would interpret about 4 psi boost. Now ask yourself, would you add 4 psi boost to a gen2 coyote without tuning for it? If so, then carry on.
What I can say for sure is that most tables in a gen2 coyote only extend to 1.1 load, including all of the IPC tables. The IPC MAP max, max MAP over BP, and load at WOT are all limited to near-baro as well. There are countless torque limits all set barely over stock levels. I can't say for sure that any of these will cause a problem, as I've seen different OS's react differently when you exceed various limits. However, I would start very small and work your way up very slowly in jet size, logging thoroughly along the way. You'd want to watch the MAF, load, spark timing, knock, and fuel trims. If load stops increasing with additional nitrous, there's a problem. If you start seeing fuel trims rise to match the additional flow, the throttle close, or TR spark timing reduction creep in, then there's a problem.
If we play this out from a controls standpoint, the MAF sensor will read the additional mass flow, which is a good thing and just what you'd want it to do. It might not be super accurate as K4fxd said, but for argument's sake lets assume it is accurate.
The first thing that happens in the logic is the mass airflow is converted to load. Load is a factor of the actual mass of air in the cylinder divided by the mass of air in a full cylinder at standard temperature and pressure. It's a pretty simple conversion: load = MAF/rpm/4/.0017. The load is then used in thousands of places for countless reasons including fueling. Most stock Coyotes can hover around 1.0 load at max torque, which is pretty impressive, but also depends heavily on ambient conditions.
So, let's say you add a 75 dry shot. At 4000 rpm at a load of 1.0 NA, that would increase the load to about 1.25. The logic would interpret this exactly the same as it would interpret about 4 psi boost. Now ask yourself, would you add 4 psi boost to a gen2 coyote without tuning for it? If so, then carry on.
What I can say for sure is that most tables in a gen2 coyote only extend to 1.1 load, including all of the IPC tables. The IPC MAP max, max MAP over BP, and load at WOT are all limited to near-baro as well. There are countless torque limits all set barely over stock levels. I can't say for sure that any of these will cause a problem, as I've seen different OS's react differently when you exceed various limits. However, I would start very small and work your way up very slowly in jet size, logging thoroughly along the way. You'd want to watch the MAF, load, spark timing, knock, and fuel trims. If load stops increasing with additional nitrous, there's a problem. If you start seeing fuel trims rise to match the additional flow, the throttle close, or TR spark timing reduction creep in, then there's a problem.
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markmurfie
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Air is 78% N2, 21% O2.
N2O is made up of the same elements just with a 64% N2 and 36% O. Just the single oxygen.
Luckily the MAF reports pounds / time and a pound of air and a pound of nitrous oxide gas are equal. Engine load is even a ratio function of pounds, not oxygen.
The only oxygen feed back you get is from the O2 sensors in the exhaust post combustion, and at that point lambda 1 is stoich for all combustion reactions. ethanol, gasoline, propane, nitrous, ect.
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cbrtrx
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I've tuned more then 50 of gen 1,2,3, cars on nitrous. Dry, wet, staged, progressive mild to wild. Almost all the issues mentioned are not really an issue at all when setup properly. I have worked with nitrous companies developing products that are still be used today.
If you're doing a small shot say a 50 to 75 shot use a dry single fogger or I'd even make my own radial spray bars to distribute the nitrous more evenly. You control the lean spike by the nitrous line length after the noid and tuning. Yes it still requires a proper tune. If you want to spray more then I only recommend a plate kit simply because of the atomization, single wet foggers work poorly on these cars. I've tuned cars with 250 shots through a plate with no issues, but I don't recommend over 200 on a plate. More then that then you'd go direct port. From my experience a 125 to 150 is the sweet spot on the cars.
If you're doing a small shot say a 50 to 75 shot use a dry single fogger or I'd even make my own radial spray bars to distribute the nitrous more evenly. You control the lean spike by the nitrous line length after the noid and tuning. Yes it still requires a proper tune. If you want to spray more then I only recommend a plate kit simply because of the atomization, single wet foggers work poorly on these cars. I've tuned cars with 250 shots through a plate with no issues, but I don't recommend over 200 on a plate. More then that then you'd go direct port. From my experience a 125 to 150 is the sweet spot on the cars.
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