Best plan of attack for mods for track events?

[BigChief]

I picked up my 19 GT350 back in late 2022 as a weekend fun car with intentions to get to the tracks in my local area as often as time would allow. A front tow hook and air filter are my only modifications, and have only been keeping up on oil changes and brake fluid swaps. Pads are about ready to be replaced. Currently on pilot super sports on stock wheels.

Since getting the car I’ve done about 6 HPDE’s or track days on road courses (Daytona International and the FIRM) and plan on doing more next year, probably 1-2 per quarter. Shooting for Sebring in the fall as well. I’d *eventually* like to move up to doing time trials. I know nothing beats seat time to get faster and more confident and improving as a driver but I’ve got some money in my budget to do some modifications but I’m not sure where to start as I know im not out driving the car as it sits.

I was thinking of doing a square setup 19x11 with more aggressive rubber like pilot sport cup 2’s. I don’t have a trailer to get to track so the car would be driven there. Coupled with caster and camber plates and ford performance springs to begin with as well.

What are yalls thoughts on this? Maybe it’s sub frame braces as well?

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[honeybadger]

My recommendation is not to change things until they start breaking. Use that money burning a hole in your pocket to get on track more! And if you have more, then use it to get professional coaching. My general rule of thumb is for mods is:

1. You don't need more tire until you're at the true limit of what your tires can do
2. You don't need aero until you're four wheel drifting corners
3. you don't need more brakes until you're having brake fade
4. you don't need more power while cars with less Hp than you are turning faster lap times
5. you don't need suspension mods until you're tracking consistently and stock suspension is becoming an inhibitor to your speed progression

I actually think it sounds like you're taking a pretty thoughtful approach and glad to see you're not trying to just throw a bunch of parts at the car. However, I'd still push you to get more seat time - 1-2 times a quarter leaves a lot of opportunity. If you're REALLY committed to spending $$ and you can't make it track time, I suggest building a racing sim

 

[tindale]

Excellent advice Honeybadger

 

[ecoboost321]

Honeybadger chimes in with some great advice (from his experience)

Bottom line is to start with driver mods and seat time, and go from there and enjoy !

 

[WItoTX]

HB is right on. Only thing is add. Do the safety stuff first. So roll bar, harnesses, Hans, and seats.

I went the other route, modifying all the fun performance bits. Now, my car is fast enough just about every instructor has commented on my lack of safety gear. And now, I need more cooling, but I'm waiting until I get the roll bar, harness and hans installed before any more go fast mods.

 

[WItoTX]

One other thing. If you are running with certain TDE clubs, they will provide coaches. Their job is to make sure A) you're driving safely and B) help you go faster. Spend your money with a club with good coaches.

Here locally in Texas, NASA coaches left a lot to be desired, while The Drivers Edge sticks a coach with a similar car into your car. They will drive your car on parade laps and show you what to do, and when, what to expect, where your eyes should be, what you should expect to feel, all that good stuff that you don't know until you know.

 

[BigChief]

My recommendation is not to change things until they start breaking. Use that money burning a hole in your pocket to get on track more! And if you have more, then use it to get professional coaching. My general rule of thumb is for mods is:

1. You don't need more tire until you're at the true limit of what your tires can do
2. You don't need aero until you're four wheel drifting corners
3. you don't need more brakes until you're having brake fade
4. you don't need more power while cars with less Hp than you are turning faster lap times
5. you don't need suspension mods until you're tracking consistently and stock suspension is becoming an inhibitor to your speed progression

I actually think it sounds like you're taking a pretty thoughtful approach and glad to see you're not trying to just throw a bunch of parts at the car. However, I'd still push you to get more seat time - 1-2 times a quarter leaves a lot of opportunity. If you're REALLY committed to spending $$ and you can't make it track time, I suggest building a racing sim

Thank you HB and everyone else for the replies! I got this car because it was my affordable dream car and knew it was track ready without pretty much anything needing to be done to it. To that end, it’s been fantastic and lived up to expectations. Seat time and safety are top priority for me and I’d like to get some more instructor time for sure. Some thoughts:

1: dumb question but how do I know when I’m at the true limit of my tires? I find the car under steering around some of the tighter corners at the firm or for example in turns 3 and 4 at Daytona. This could be me… or could be the tire. Im guessing having some instructor time would be able to tell me (I don’t know what I don’t know).
2: this makes sense.
3: the brakes on this car are fantastic and I haven’t had them fade on me yet and I feel like I’ve really laid into them coming into the bus stop and turn 1 at Daytona.
4: no plans on power adders to this car. Engine is staying NA, don’t want a tune, and I feel like more power would just upset the balance this car already has.
5: also makes sense.

As a counter point- I understand not dropping money on specific parts until I feel something is becoming a limiting factor to me as a driver or if something breaks. But at the same time wouldn’t the above mods (350R front splitter, stickier tire, square setup, FP linear spring) just make the car more fun, predictable and competent on the track even if im not at the limit of the car as it sits? Other than the wheels and tires those mods aren’t really that expensive in the grand scheme of things And seem like pretty basic improvements?

 

[NightmareMoon]

Thank you HB and everyone else for the replies! I got this car because it was my affordable dream car and knew it was track ready without pretty much anything needing to be done to it. To that end, it’s been fantastic and lived up to expectations. Seat time and safety are top priority for me and I’d like to get some more instructor time for sure. Some thoughts:

1: dumb question but how do I know when I’m at the true limit of my tires? I find the car under steering around some of the tighter corners at the firm or for example in turns 3 and 4 at Daytona. This could be me… or could be the tire. Im guessing having some instructor time would be able to tell me (I don’t know what I don’t know).
2: this makes sense.
3: the brakes on this car are fantastic and I haven’t had them fade on me yet and I feel like I’ve really laid into them coming into the bus stop and turn 1 at Daytona.
4: no plans on power adders to this car. Engine is staying NA, don’t want a tune, and I feel like more power would just upset the balance this car already has.
5: also makes sense.

As a counter point- I understand not dropping money on specific parts until I feel something is becoming a limiting factor to me as a driver or if something breaks. But at the same time wouldn’t the above mods (350R front splitter, stickier tire, square setup, FP linear spring) just make the car more fun, predictable and competent on the track even if im not at the limit of the car as it sits? Other than the wheels and tires those mods aren’t really that expensive in the grand scheme of things And seem like pretty basic improvements?

right, having an instructor in the car is how you figure out what is due to the tires and what is due to your driving habits. If very well could be understeering a little, but hard to say if its good or bad understeer. Aero from a front splitter for example, wouldnt help much at all in the slowest corners.

look, its your car, if you want to buy some toys for it yoi dont need permission. Having a 2nd set of tires is really helpful if you daily and also track it.

but to honeybadgers point, making the car faster rarely helps the driver learn faster, and some changes, like grippy tires, can actually mask mistakes. Without riding with you its hard to say for yourself personally if you’ll be the kind of driver who should stay on forgiving slower tires to learn the feeling, confidence, and control of sliding around, or if you’re someone who is ready and only being held back by the tires.

I ‘d suggest using the extra money for cross training, like sims or autocross, and to absolutely run with organizations who offer instruction and even seek out and pay for track time with a personal coach. Time solo in the car is only useful if you know exactly what to work on and you just need seat time to rehearse.

 

[BigChief]

right, having an instructor in the car is how you figure out what is due to the tires and what is due to your driving habits. If very well could be understeering a little, but hard to say if its good or bad understeer. Aero from a front splitter for example, wouldnt help much at all in the slowest corners.

look, its your car, if you want to buy some toys for it yoi dont need permission. Having a 2nd set of tires is really helpful if you daily and also track it.

but to honeybadgers point, making the car faster rarely helps the driver learn faster, and some changes, like grippy tires, can actually mask mistakes. Without riding with you its hard to say for yourself personally if you’ll be the kind of driver who should stay on forgiving slower tires to learn the feeling, confidence, and control of sliding around, or if you’re someone who is ready and only being held back by the tires.

I ‘d suggest using the extra money for cross training, like sims or autocross, and to absolutely run with organizations who offer instruction and even seek out and pay for track time with a personal coach. Time solo in the car is only useful if you know exactly what to work on and you just need seat time to rehearse.

All excellent points. Certainly not seeking permission to buy parts, just getting that usual
Itch to start modding after a couple years of ownership and was thinking some light suspension mods like springs and caster camber plates wouldn’t hurt. But wasn’t sure what would be best bang for buck to start with.

Based off every one’s responses looks like I should just spend my $$$ on instructor time so that’s what I’m gonna do! I am an SCCA member but I don’t think they do instructors?

NASA is also an option and they do Events locally as well.

 

[NightmareMoon]

All excellent points. Certainly not seeking permission to buy parts, just getting that usual
Itch to start modding after a couple years of ownership and was thinking some light suspension mods like springs and caster camber plates wouldn’t hurt. But wasn’t sure what would be best bang for buck to start with.

Based off every one’s responses looks like I should just spend my $$$ on instructor time so that’s what I’m gonna do! I am an SCCA member but I don’t think they do instructors?

NASA is also an option and they do Events locally as well.

if you mean SCCA Track Night in America, yeah, no in car instruction there. I dont recommend it for new people for that reason. Its fun and cheap, but not a great place to learn and improve. Probably just build bad habits.

You dont NEED either, but IMHO camber plates and a 2nd set of wheels are good ideas. The camber plates (dialed in for significantly more than stock front camber) will help any new tires you buy survive longer on track. You dont need it but it can save you a few bucks in tire costs by extending the life of your track tires.

If you do wheels, firstly figure out what tire you intend to run, then pick a wheel large enough to properly support or even stretch the tire a little, and if its a track wheel, dont buy used, and prioritize strength over looks. If you’re only doing one of those (wheels or camber plates), I’d do the plates. More front camber alone will reduce understeer, unless that understeer is just from the front tires getting to old and worn. Track tires (ideally) should be stored in a climate controlled environment, in bags, and away from UV light. Otherise they dry out and age quicker than you’d like.

You’re already doing pretty well because you’re getting out there and using the car already. A lot of people try to build the car up before they even set foot on a track, which is a real shame. keep it up and find some events with in car personal instruction.

 

[BigChief]

if you mean SCCA Track Night in America, yeah, no in car instruction there. I dont recommend it for new people for that reason. Its fun and cheap, but not a great place to learn and improve. Probably just build bad habits.

You dont NEED either, but IMHO camber plates and a 2nd set of wheels are good ideas. The camber plates (dialed in for significantly more than stock front camber) will help any new tires you buy survive longer on track. You dont need it but it can save you a few bucks in tire costs by extending the life of your track tires.

If you do wheels, firstly figure out what tire you intend to run, then pick a wheel large enough to properly support or even stretch the tire a little, and if its a track wheel, dont buy used, and prioritize strength over looks. If you’re only doing one of those (wheels or camber plates), I’d do the plates. More front camber alone will reduce understeer, unless that understeer is just from the front tires getting to old and worn. Track tires (ideally) should be stored in a climate controlled environment, in bags, and away from UV light. Otherise they dry out and age quicker than you’d like.

You’re already doing pretty well because you’re getting out there and using the car already. A lot of people try to build the car up before they even set foot on a track, which is a real shame. keep it up and find some events with in car personal instruction.

Thanks! I’ve been going to the track to have fun and go fast but always with the idea that I work on my lines, push it when I’m comfortable doing so and improve as a driver. I’m getting to the point tho that I could use some instruction so I can build on more good habits.

I think I’ll start off with the caster camber plates based off your reco. And if I’m doing that I may throw down for some springs and then a track alignment. I’ll probably then just run my pilot super sports to the cords and then look at a tire and wheel upgrade after those wear out.

And of course some instructor time.

 

[CharlesC]

While not related to the car mod questions, would highly recommend a SIM setup if you can find a preferred track on iracing or AC. I've been able to get some serious track time in advance of hitting tracks and feel way more comfortable with the racing line. Direct drive wheel setups have become more affordable and offer a pretty realistic experience.

 

[TRDFurgesson]

I have been involved in iRacing since it was released and it is a fantastic resource not to mention tons and tons of fun.

 

[honeybadger]

Thank you HB and everyone else for the replies! I got this car because it was my affordable dream car and knew it was track ready without pretty much anything needing to be done to it. To that end, it’s been fantastic and lived up to expectations. Seat time and safety are top priority for me and I’d like to get some more instructor time for sure. Some thoughts:

1: dumb question but how do I know when I’m at the true limit of my tires? I find the car under steering around some of the tighter corners at the firm or for example in turns 3 and 4 at Daytona. This could be me… or could be the tire. Im guessing having some instructor time would be able to tell me (I don’t know what I don’t know).
2: this makes sense.
3: the brakes on this car are fantastic and I haven’t had them fade on me yet and I feel like I’ve really laid into them coming into the bus stop and turn 1 at Daytona.
4: no plans on power adders to this car. Engine is staying NA, don’t want a tune, and I feel like more power would just upset the balance this car already has.
5: also makes sense.

As a counter point- I understand not dropping money on specific parts until I feel something is becoming a limiting factor to me as a driver or if something breaks. But at the same time wouldn’t the above mods (350R front splitter, stickier tire, square setup, FP linear spring) just make the car more fun, predictable and competent on the track even if im not at the limit of the car as it sits? Other than the wheels and tires those mods aren’t really that expensive in the grand scheme of things And seem like pretty basic improvements?

As nightmare said, a good coach will help you figure out if it's driving or tires - I could probably tell looking at your video if you want to share some with me (PM is fine). Here's a fun story for some context on where I am coming from:

When I went to track attack in 2017, I spent all day driving one of the school cars that Pilot Super Sport tires on it. By the end of the day, I felt like I was at the limit of the car/tire. I couldn't carry anymore speed into the corners without risking going off, wait any longer to get on the brakes, etc. Then came the hot laps with the instructors and pro drivers - Ronnie got in the same car I had been driving all day and felt like I was at the limit of and immediately went 2 seconds a lap faster.

It was the biggest "light bulb" moment of my journey so far. It's when I realized that I was truly far from the real limits of the car, but I was at the limit of grip given how I was driving (read: setting the car up for a corner). Ever since then, I've spent money on pro coaching every year - whether in a Miata or in the 350. I always get more value from the pro coaching than instructor coaching. Don't get me wrong, when you're stilling learning, instructors are great. And lots of orgs have great instructors - I'm a fan (I instruct with Chin and Edge Addicts here in TX) of check ins after you've been solo'd. However, nothing beats a pro racer that is good at coaching. The really good ones will work with you and then do a "data lap" for you to work against...that way you can see where you're leaving time on the table. Nothing will help you learn faster than seeing someone break that barrier for you. It's really eye-opening. Speaking of, that reminds me that I need to find someone to do the same in the new build.

That makes me change my guidance above - I HIGHLY suggest getting some hardware to help tracklap times and log data. Lots use Garmin because it's user friendly. I prefer AIM's system because it's a true data logger. but both are good options!

 

[BigChief]

As nightmare said, a good coach will help you figure out if it's driving or tires - I could probably tell looking at your video if you want to share some with me (PM is fine). Here's a fun story for some context on where I am coming from:

When I went to track attack in 2017, I spent all day driving one of the school cars that Pilot Super Sport tires on it. By the end of the day, I felt like I was at the limit of the car/tire. I couldn't carry anymore speed into the corners without risking going off, wait any longer to get on the brakes, etc. Then came the hot laps with the instructors and pro drivers - Ronnie got in the same car I had been driving all day and felt like I was at the limit of and immediately went 2 seconds a lap faster.

It was the biggest "light bulb" moment of my journey so far. It's when I realized that I was truly far from the real limits of the car, but I was at the limit of grip given how I was driving (read: setting the car up for a corner). Ever since then, I've spent money on pro coaching every year - whether in a Miata or in the 350. I always get more value from the pro coaching than instructor coaching. Don't get me wrong, when you're stilling learning, instructors are great. And lots of orgs have great instructors - I'm a fan (I instruct with Chin and Edge Addicts here in TX) of check ins after you've been solo'd. However, nothing beats a pro racer that is good at coaching. The really good ones will work with you and then do a "data lap" for you to work against...that way you can see where you're leaving time on the table. Nothing will help you learn faster than seeing someone break that barrier for you. It's really eye-opening. Speaking of, that reminds me that I need to find someone to do the same in the new build.

That makes me change my guidance above - I HIGHLY suggest getting some hardware to help tracklap times and log data. Lots use Garmin because it's user friendly. I prefer AIM's system because it's a true data logger. but both are good options!

Totally agree. My first track day I got a ride along with another more seasoned person in his 350R. That was an eye opener. Holy shit this car will brake THAT HARD?….however at that time I was so mentally overloaded with everything that comes along with your first track day experience I couldn’t tell you his line or what speed he was carrying into the corners or any of that!

I also got 1-2 instruction ride alongs after my very first hot session and learned I was REALLY NOT pushing the car in ANY way! I was so nervous! But next few sessions I got faster and faster. And each day back I’ve gone faster and faster and see PR’s.

Now I have more experience and time on track and I’ve had a few laps at the firm where I’ve pushed and pushed and I hit a personal best but haven’t got past my last PR and I think to myself man i know im leaving time on the table with some of these corners but would improvement come from better line or better tires? Or what? Im in that spot as you after the track attack.

Anyway. I was looking to invest in the Garmin. I like the simplicity and real time feedback I’ve seen. But man it’s expensive. Thinking I don’t get suspension mods and just get that and instructor time as you and others have suggested. I’ll run the tires down until they’re dead then do something stickier.

Also- how do I know when I’ve gone thru all of the “heat cycles” of the pilot super sports? I understand all tires have a certain # of
Times/laps on track at High speeds and temps before they just lose their stickiness and become less grippy?

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