Why the Mach1 is a rip off

[S550VIN54]

no. they see what income the property will throw off and buy at "any" price if the income and expected appreciation is good enough.

If they guess wrong, they take a business loss and write it off and get multi-year credits on future income.

See BlackRock.

Housing is mind-bogglingly distorted. It's not supposed to be an investment, it's supposed to be a place with 4 walls and a decent roof in which to shelter from the weather. Even if you pay off the house up front or over 30 years it doesn't matter if you can't make the local tax payments. I haven't looked at which States have a homestead exclusion where tax is never owed on the primary residence, or where tax default can never be used to seize the property. I think some of the Western States have such provisions. But in the rest you are only 'renting' the property from the local municipality exactly no different than the Chinese Communists who let you 'buy' a 100yr lease on a piece of land and it then reverts to the gov't and you have no such thing as 'title' or 'ownership'.

Isn't there a M6G investment thread we could move this over to?

no. they see what income the property will throw off and buy at "any" price if the income and expected appreciation is good enough.

If they guess wrong, they take a business loss and write it off and get multi-year credits on future income.

See BlackRock.

Housing is mind-bogglingly distorted. It's not supposed to be an investment, it's supposed to be a place with 4 walls and a decent roof in which to shelter from the weather. Even if you pay off the house up front or over 30 years it doesn't matter if you can't make the local tax payments. I haven't looked at which States have a homestead exclusion where tax is never owed on the primary residence, or where tax default can never be used to seize the property. I think some of the Western States have such provisions. But in the rest you are only 'renting' the property from the local municipality exactly no different than the Chinese Communists who let you 'buy' a 100yr lease on a piece of land and it then reverts to the gov't and you have no such thing as 'title' or 'ownership'.

Isn't there a M6G investment thread we could move this over to?

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[S550VIN54]

no. they see what income the property will throw off and buy at "any" price if the income and expected appreciation is good enough.

If they guess wrong, they take a business loss and write it off and get multi-year credits on future income.

See BlackRock.

Housing is mind-bogglingly distorted. It's not supposed to be an investment, it's supposed to be a place with 4 walls and a decent roof in which to shelter from the weather. Even if you pay off the house up front or over 30 years it doesn't matter if you can't make the local tax payments. I haven't looked at which States have a homestead exclusion where tax is never owed on the primary residence, or where tax default can never be used to seize the property. I think some of the Western States have such provisions. But in the rest you are only 'renting' the property from the local municipality exactly no different than the Chinese Communists who let you 'buy' a 100yr lease on a piece of land and it then reverts to the gov't and you have no such thing as 'title' or 'ownership'.

Isn't there a M6G investment thread we could move this over to?

 

[shogun32]

Good luck persuading people to buy ZL1 in a Mustang forum

wasn't the point of his post. He was discussing $$$ for value.

As a simultaneous owner of a 2019 SS/1LE and one each 2019 EB/PP (101A) and GT/PP (300A) trim Mustangs I'm one of probably only a handful who has lived with all 3 cars at the same time. The Mustang looks better and interior is more welcoming, no question. Better "sports" car is the Camaro and it's not even close. And it was only $2500 more. That advantage was increased further by the 3 grand I dumped into the GT to bring it's chassis and suspension up to the same level as the Camaro.

The better Mustang choice would have been the PP2. Actually I should have just swallowed the bile rising in my throat at the thought of a Mustang priced over 45 grand and bought the 2018 GT350 with all of 200 miles on it for $48,000 or any of the handful of 2019 GT350R being sold new for a mere pittance of $66,000.

I test drove 3 different ZL1's and the ZLE twice. The power delivery was delicious and the chassis was there to handle it. But the prices were just too much - $55,000+. I was standing right there when a 2018 ZL1 with 3000 miles was being traded into Sheehy for $49,000. The dealership wouldn't budge an inch off of 54,000 even though it would mean the car had been on their lot all of 1 hour between changing hands.

Having lived with Camaro vs Mustang I was enthused by the M1 introduction only to blanch at the asking price. I just can't do it. I commend Ford for finally after 7 long years putting together a SS/1LE with Coyote engine. But it's still just a Mustang, just like the GT350 is just a Mustang with a different engine and trans.

I know what the price of a diff cooler is by buying parts at retail. Buying factory parts via clean-sheet order should not cost more than I can buy the same parts at retail even accounting for having to hire 3rd party install labor.

 

[trackd]

wasn't the point of his post. He was discussing $$$ for value.

As a simultaneous owner of a 2019 SS/1LE and one each 2019 EB/PP (101A) and GT/PP (300A) trim Mustangs I'm one of probably only a handful who has lived with all 3 cars at the same time. The Mustang looks better and interior is more welcoming, no question. Better "sports" car is the Camaro and it's not even close. And it was only $2500 more. That advantage was increased further by the 3 grand I dumped into the GT to bring it's chassis and suspension up to the same level as the Camaro.

The better Mustang choice would have been the PP2. Actually I should have just swallowed the bile rising in my throat at the thought of a Mustang priced over 45 grand and bought the 2018 GT350 with all of 200 miles on it for $48,000 or any of the handful of 2019 GT350R being sold new for a mere pittance of $66,000.

I test drove 3 different ZL1's and the ZLE twice. The power delivery was delicious and the chassis was there to handle it. But the prices were just too much - $55,000+. I was standing right there when a 2018 ZL1 with 3000 miles was being traded into Sheehy for $49,000. The dealership wouldn't budge an inch off of 54,000 even though it would mean the car had been on their lot all of 1 hour between changing hands.

Having lived with Camaro vs Mustang I was enthused by the M1 introduction only to blanch at the asking price. I just can't do it. I commend Ford for finally after 7 long years putting together a SS/1LE with Coyote engine. But it's still just a Mustang, just like the GT350 is just a Mustang with a different engine and trans.

I know what the price of a diff cooler is by buying parts at retail. Buying factory parts via clean-sheet order should not cost more than I can buy the same parts at retail even accounting for having to hire 3rd party install labor.

Good analysis and from someone that's owned both sides, valuable info, thanks! When I was shopping, my limit was around $60K, and as of 3 mos ago, there was no way I could touch a new or used Mach 1, great pkg IMO. I looked hard for a used GT350, a few in the high 50s, but just can't pull the trigger on the sporadic oil consumption issues. Looked at Carfax reports for oil change frequencies, etc. Plus parts and maint for any Shelby are higher in long term.

So, I figured to settle for a low miles PP2, got to have the Recaros since I will install a harness soon. Looked for a few weeks. I know I will add a diff cooler plus camber plates because this will be my 75% tracked GT. Low 40K was good enough to start with, very clean stock 2019. I'll see what I can do with upgrades later, since some left over $$ saved. First track day in a couple of weeks! Bought a set of square 19x11 Apexes with PSC2s stock 305 size. Good enough for baseline times.

 

[murick]

I know what the price of a diff cooler is by buying parts at retail. Buying factory parts via clean-sheet order should not cost more than I can buy the same parts at retail even accounting for having to hire 3rd party install labor.

Imagine that I value the additional features enough to pay the price (for me the major one is Tremec, but the other "bin parts" are also worth having them). Now for the price, since I do not want to rebuild the new car, I basically only have one choice to either pay (and have a car) or not (and do not have a car). There is no cheaper home built Mach 1 version for me. And in this decision - to pay or not to pay - I am comfortable about paying it.

It is true that I do not have a luxury of choosing from Camaro, Corvette, Dodge, or even GT350 as none of them is officially sold here, but even if I did have, I would not choose between those based on the price as they seem far more different in the other aspects (intended use, ergonomics, practicality) that it could be simply compensated by some price difference.

I believe Mach 1 is an overpriced product for you, and you made perfectly valid argument about it. I hope I have made an argument why it is not for me.

 

[OutWest]

I wonder if there are trolls in Camaro and Challenger forums explaining why a SS or a R/T is a rip off. I bet they are there too

 

[shogun32]

The dodge forums are dead. No traffic at all. Troll or otherwise

And anyway the r/t is a bargain. There are precious few tarted up trim option cars marketed under a subtype.

Dodge has the decency to charge a big fat dollar for rear seat delete and it's available across all or almost all trims.

I can buy today a scat with every option for 8pct below msrp and it just came off the truck last week. I just can't justify buying 57k worth of challenger

I'm trying to get into a eco hpp+hp but the dealer doesn't want to play ball

 

[Kermut]

But in the rest you are only 'renting' the property from the local municipality exactly no different than the Chinese Communists who let you 'buy' a 100yr lease on a piece of land and it then reverts to the gov't and you have no such thing as 'title' or 'ownership'.

So I asked my wife about that because I was curious. She says that her parents have the title to their condo in Shanghai, but they have a 70 year 'tax' that someone paid to the government when the building was first built.

I asked her what happens when the 70 years is up, and she says that nobody has a clue since it hasn't happened yet. There is speculation that the government will either charge another 70 year tax fee, or switch over to an annual tax like in the US.

Anyway, figured people would find that interesting.

 

[br_an]

I wonder if there are trolls in Camaro and Challenger forums explaining why a SS or a R/T is a rip off. I bet they are there too

of course there are

 

[Kermut]

The dodge forums are dead. No traffic at all. Troll or otherwise

And anyway the r/t is a bargain. There are precious few tarted up trim option cars marketed under a subtype.

Dodge has the decency to charge a big fat dollar for rear seat delete and it's available across all or almost all trims.

I can buy today a scat with every option for 8pct below msrp and it just came off the truck last week. I just can't justify buying 57k worth of challenger

I'm trying to get into a eco hpp+hp but the dealer doesn't want to play ball

You gotta just bite the bullet on this and buy new, or wait 2 years to buy used. I will be honestly amazed if the used market corrects in the next year.

If you do buy a Mach, I think you can be confident that it will follow the value trends of the previous Mach/Boss 302/Bullitt. As in, yea, it's gonna depreciate. But that's true with any of these mass produced sports cars, so just suck it up and enjoy the ride. Or save a few thousand and buy a SSLE. Either way they are amazing rides.

It probably is the end of an era, and FOMO is real. I wanted a V8 dance partner when it's all said and done, and even if the S650 bombs, I have one.

 

[Charlemagne]

The Mustang looks better and interior is more welcoming, no question. Better "sports" car is the Camaro and it's not even close.

Looks are more important to me than few seconds on the lap time. Mach 1 handles great. I spent an hour in Sport+ mode yesterday and it behaved great, even on Michelin Pilot Alpin tyres on not fully dry road. I'm no pro, I don't drive to win, I drive for pleasure and here it doesn't disappoint one bit. Perhaps it's on par with Camaro handling wise now (as Randy Pobst suggested) while being 10k more expensive, I'm fine with that, when I like its look much more.

 

[dethmaShine]

I love the Mustang but GM has done an amazing job with Corvette. We need more competition and not less. I hope GM does well.

 

[ICU812]

GM goes bankrupt due to shitty products and extremely poor money management ... (To me this ended the who's better Ford or Chevy debate) With this said , we the taxpayers bailed them out with billions of our money . To thank us , they built 3 GM plants in China and have thus far failed to pay back their debt to the American people . Fuck GM . I would drive a fiesta before I spent a nickel on a Chevrolet / GM product ..... Suit yourself though .

Gm 's issue was GMAC. that wrote home loans.
If a thing called the community investment acted was never forced down lenders throats They never have had to hand out risky loans, and not be in a world of crap when the bubble popped.
GM's problem was GOVERNMENT forced actions. nothing more.
Ford had inside information ahead of time as they sold off everything right before the crap hit the fan.
People go to jail, for that type things.
Gm. AND ford products were garbage in the '90's and early 2000's.

 

[ICU812]

Looks are more important to me than few seconds on the lap time. Mach 1 handles great. I spent an hour in Sport+ mode yesterday and it behaved great, even on Michelin Pilot Alpin tyres on not fully dry road. I'm no pro, I don't drive to win, I drive for pleasure and here it doesn't disappoint one bit. Perhaps it's on par with Camaro handling wise now (as Randy Pobst suggested) while being 10k more expensive, I'm fine with that, when I like its look much more.

They are Both great cars. WE are lucky they both are still produced.

 

[Kermut]

Anybody else enjoy driving their rip off today? I do miss my MX-5 but the Mach makes me feel like pampered royalty

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