Need advice please - motor blown after dyno, has Whipple.

[tdstuart]

I thought the same. Anyone know someone in AZ that is more fair?

My highschool will do it for a few hundred. It will run, just no idea for how long or how much boost it will take lmao.

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[D Bergstrom]

Hate to burst everyone's bubble that thinks they are getting some special gas because they bought it at Mobil (or wherever). The truth is, its the same shit, with some unscientifically proven additive that is not proven to do anything anyways....

Exactly. Here in Las Vegas, all the fuel comes via pipeline from California. They don't pump Mobil fuel one day, Chevron the next, Costco the next, etc. They pump 87 one day, 91 the next, etc. The fuel is then picked up at the end of the pipeline and taken to the different locations where they mix in additives, then taken to the gas stations. The only difference between the 91 octane you buy at Mobil compared to Costco is the additives that are added, the base gas is exactly the same. The thing that is not the same is what is in the underground tanks and how long it has sat in those underground tanks at the gas stations, or that the guy delivering the fuel put the wrong stuff in that underground tank. I would be willing to bet Costco probably has the highest turn rate of any gas station anywhere, what other station do you see lines out to the street on a daily basis?

Doug

 

[HoosierDaddy]

For the record, there is absolutely nothing wrong with Costco gas. Their Top Tier 93 is as good as anything out there.

Agree. But FWIW OP said he was told that AZ ALLOWS gas to be sold with + or - 2 octane numbers from advertised and only Shell or Chevron is known to never be -. I've lived here since '56 and was not aware of that (if true) but then that would be nothing for me to worry about. 91 is the highest available here and I think OP was saying putting 89 (91-2) in a tuned to the edge engine might be a problem.

Of course, it sounds like it was the same experts saying that only AFTER the failure and maybe scrambling for cover.

 

[tdstuart]

why would you run boostane just for a dyno for a street car? not being a dick but curious. if you're going to be running 93 or 91 on the street all the time, and always filling up with that, why run any different on the dyno. run on the dyno what you're going to run on the street. even if it means settling for lower power. better that than to tune too aggressively and then go burn up your engine on the street.

Facts, dyno shouldn’t be anymore risky than street unless you are just trying to get a high number on the dyno then turn it down.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Did you have the fuel tested? If not you’re really reaching to blame it for you issues. I’m sorry this happened to you. I sucks for sure. But it is reckless to randomly blame the gas without first testing it.

Maybe OP should get it tested and try to get some compensation from whoever you bought it from if they really think the octane could be lower than the pump said. Hopefully the last x fill ups were from the same place/brand and OP has proof.

 

[IPOGT]

Shhhhhh, don't go telling people that.

Exactly. Here in Las Vegas, all the fuel comes via pipeline from California. They don't pump Mobil fuel one day, Chevron the next, Costco the next, etc. They pump 87 one day, 91 the next, etc. The fuel is then picked up at the end of the pipeline and taken to the different locations where they mix in additives, then taken to the gas stations. The only difference between the 91 octane you buy at Mobil compared to Costco is the additives that are added, the base gas is exactly the same. The thing that is not the same is what is in the underground tanks and how long it has sat in those underground tanks at the gas stations, or that the guy delivering the fuel put the wrong stuff in that underground tank. I would be willing to bet Costco probably has the highest turn rate of any gas station anywhere, what other station do you see lines out to the street on a daily basis?

Doug

Thinking about this another way, such frequent stock of gas refills could open the opportunity of higher rates of errors during pickup or delivery of fuel to the stations. Having worked in a service station, I have seen the wrong gas being put in the storage tanks more than once.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

I have heard quite a few stories about Costco gas. Not good ones either. I don't understand the concept of using budget gas in a high performance car. The gas may be great, but I suspect there is a storage and/or delivery moisture issue.

Pretty much the opposite. Costco stations have waiting lines virtually all the time. The fuel they sell is fresher than stations you don't have to wait in line to fill up at. Top Tier means the additives are the highest published standard.

In most markets, including the OP's all the gas is from the same pipeline and the only differences are the additives and ethanol added locally. Who has the biggest incentive to "cheat", A huge national company like Costco or the corner station who might mix a little low octane with the high or fill his tanks with no-name gas when nobody's looking?

If AZ really allows selling gas at -2 lower octane than advertised, even big brands might be fudging a little if they are certain they wouldn't exceed that. I don't doubt regulatory agencies allow some deviation but I'd hope it would only allow on the plus side to eliminate any incentive to intentionally go minus.

 

[WildHorse]

Quick facts:
2015, 9k miles, Whipple stage 2 (only on for 1k miles), Borla cat-back exhaust, billet oil pump gears, catch can. We just acquired the car 1 month ago. First SC car. Tuned/Dyno’d it. Now has bad knock. Probably rod bearings. $9K-10K quote for new short block installed (4700 labor, about 800 misc parts and seals and fees and either 3300 for oem short block or 4800 for Aluminator).

More details:
We were curious of the HP/Torque and also if there was room to improve the Whipple tune so we took the car in to a supposed reputable dyno here in Scottsdale AZ. We were not looking for more power, but efficiency and to know the numbers.
During the first pull, the car was having misfires in cylinder 6. It pulled 638HP , but it faded between 7000 and 7500 RPM. They pulled the plugs and #6 was burning funny. The piston also showed more “burn” and some slight pitting compared to others. Pics attached.
We also suspect potentially bad gas since (us being new to superchargers and high performance was purchasing Costco fuel… oops).
The tuner replaced all the spark plugs and added some racing fuel to bring up the octane to try to play it safe. He proceeded to “tune”, of which all he did was reduce timing by 2.5 degrees and along with that and the plugs and added fuel it suddenly pulled 710HP at 7500 RPM.
Upon removing the car from the Dyno, it had a knock in the motor. The tuner seemed concerned to a degree, but was saying it was probably just a rod that hadn’t pushed down ( or something like that) and said to just keep an eye on it and if it gets worse to stop driving it. Also, he was asking what oil was in the car. I happen to have the invoice from the previous owner and it showed 5w20 and the tuner quickly blamed that saying it was the wrong oil and we needed to change it immediately because it was too thin.
Part of me was feeling stupid for being a novice and not doing more due diligence, and the more I think about this, I’m also mad at the tuner for not doing his due diligence and asking some of theses questions prior to the dyno.
Now faced with 9-10K options, I’m trying to figure the best route to take and also hopefully the fastest because we are thinking about the Aluminator block, but current delivery estimate is 9 weeks (end of January). We are hesitant to do the oem block because this is a good time to make it better and we don’t want this to happen again.
I have so many more thoughts here but will limit myself and let people ask questions and give input.

So basically you and the tuner did everything wrong.

 

[shogun32]

Who buys & runs Costco or Sam's Club fuel, for a Mustang?

there is nothing wrong with Costco gas. It comes out of the same damn distribution tanks (10 million gallon tank farms) as all the rest. My EB, GT and 3.5EB all happily suck the 93 down.

 

[shogun32]

I have personally hauled a load of STRAIT FUCKING SEAWATER out of a terminal in New Haven, CT before, and delivered it to a gas station, before anyone realized what had happened

so no in-line test rig/sensors at each distribution port? This sort of thing shouldn't rely on 'luck'. Isn't everyone ISO9001 certified?

 

[331GT]

Thinking about this another way, such frequent stock of gas refills could open the opportunity of higher rates of errors during pickup or delivery of fuel to the stations. Having worked in a service station, I have seen the wrong gas being put in the storage tanks more than once.

unfortunately, this brings up a pretty good point and i think this is a more realistic concern. id like to think such errors are very uncommon but i know better than to assume people wont make mistakes like this i have literally zero knowledge of the procedures to ensure the proper fuel goes into the proper underground tanks and the rate of error for all this, but i hope it doesnt happen to me, or anyone else here.

 

[Cambur]

All, this thread was not meant to be an argument over fuel quality. It was only brought up as a fact that may or may not be helpful. Please, if you want to argue about fuel or give your 2 cents about fuel, start a new thread with that topic…. Or better yet find one of the many that probably already exists.

 

[libtrucker]

so no in-line test rig/sensors at each distribution port? This sort of thing shouldn't rely on 'luck'. Isn't everyone ISO9001 certified?

No, the water sensor in the tank at the station went off when I unloaded it.

I also had a terminal operator open the wrong ball valve and mix ethanol and diesel into one of the tanks at Motiva Tampa. That shitty diesel got delivered to 80 or so stores in South Florida before someone caught on. I pumped out 5/6 of the stores, and Circle K had to have someone come in and clean the residual out of the tanks.

You would be amazed how shit in the fuel business goes unchecked.

 

[Plimmer]

All, this thread was not meant to be an argument over fuel quality. It was only brought up as a fact that may or may not be helpful. Please, if you want to argue about fuel or give your 2 cents about fuel, start a new thread with that topic…. Or better yet find one of the many that probably already exists.

I’ll add my 2c:
-Looks like a used car that came with the supercharger and unknown tune already installed. Possibly previous owner damaged it and sold it as a result.
-Someone already pointed this out, one plug strap damaged and top of piston with marks on it looks like something went through engine, small nut or something, maybe. That could damage a rod, piston or bearing.
-Never heard of a bad tune hurting a rod or main bearing, and 5w20 is not great oil for a boosted engine in hot AZ. You should use a full synthetic 5w30 to 5w50. Always go to dyno with fresh full synthetic new oil.
-91 octane and boost don’t work. E85, octane booster or meth injection will be needed. Either way, lots of jabber about bad fuel, the coyote has knock sensors that retard timing up to 10 degrees if knock is detected. I don’t think fuel caused your problem.

More likely your engine was already hurt, and the dyno just highlighted this.

FYI, boosted engines that started out NA will have ring gaps that are too tight for boost. This works ok for short pulls like dyno runs or quarter mile, but as soon as you do a longer pull the rings heat up enough to cause the ends to butt together and the ring lands break.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

All, this thread was not meant to be an argument over fuel quality. It was only brought up as a fact that may or may not be helpful. Please, if you want to argue about fuel or give your 2 cents about fuel, start a new thread with that topic…. Or better yet find one of the many that probably already exists.

But on the plus side, M6G gives you double your money back if you don't like what you read

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