Did Ford Ruin their Manual Trans? - Engineering Explained

[ice445]

I didn’t own a pre-18 MT82, but I’ve driven a friend’s several times. With the added power of the Gen 3 over the Gen 2, it makes up for some of the shorter first gear of the MT82, not to mention it’ll rev to 7400-7500 rpm. Other than that, while there are pros and cons of each I suppose, I actually prefer the 18+ MT82-D4. In daily driving, the 3.66 first gear in the MT82 is almost useless. The 3.24 in the D4 is much more useable and almost identical to the 3.25 in the all so cherished Tremec. The con to the D4 is the gap between first and second 3.24-2.10. On the track, it can make second a bit sluggish when you need to really slow down (it’s just not hardly possible to go back to first). To me that’s the biggest downside, but I only track maybe two or three times a season.

On the strip, with 27” drag radials, I can trap in third gear eliminating the additional shift. To me, where the D4 is definitely a plus is having two overdrive gears. With the MT82, fifth is 1:1 and then you jump all the way to 0.65 for sixth. Since 65-80 mph is typical highway speeds, you’re either revving trying to stay in fifth or lugging in sixth with no in between. Fifth in the D4 is 0.81 and where I’ll be most of the time on the highway. I won’t shift to sixth unless I’m cruising on an open stretch with the cruise set on 80+.

Some of the naysayers still complain about the Getrag being notchy with 2-3 lockouts at higher rpm’s. Maybe I got a good one, but I think the throws feel crisp and move through the gates easily. I tend to drive spiritedly and have not had any lockout issues even shifting at redline. I do think the new twin disc clutch and dual mass flywheel improves shifting considerably. I had a Tremec in my cammed LS2 GTO with a JHP short throw, and I honestly don’t think that set up was much better. If anything, the Getrag is a little more crisp entering the gates.

There is no doubt the 10R80 will be faster in a straight line and will trap 3-5 mph faster in the 1/4, but I’m old school and just can’t imagine an auto being as much fun as a manual in a 400+ horsepower street car. To each their own I guess. Best of luck in your decision.

I second this opinion, pretty much exactly how I feel. The unit feels nice to use and is pleasant to daily drive.

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[Thecasperlife]

Anyone running 4.56 gears on their 2018+ GT? Wondering if it’s worth going from 3.73 -> 4.09. 4.56 seems like it may be too much.

 

[Dfeeds]

Thanks for the detailed reply, very helpful!

I second the d4 gearing being good for daily driving. It's very road trip and cruising friendly. First gear still feels exhilarating and second has plenty of oomph. Although it's not without its quirks. Second can feel sluggish if you shift real early and decide to get on it and third gear is just awkward. Second gear redlines around 70 mph (with 3.73 gearing) but if you're looking to downshift around 50-60 mph you'll probably choose third instinctively and it feels very sluggish at that speed. Remembering to use second when you'd normally use third will be the toughest part. If you're doing a 1/4 mile run or expressway pull then third feels just fine after redlining second gear. Just like any iteration of the coyote, gotta drive it like a civic to get the most out of its power.

 

[Semp1]

4.09 gears remedies the 18’s longer trans gearing, slower feel and is more equivalent to the 15-17 S550 3.73’s. Because the gearing is so long and lazy the 4.09 upgrade feels fine for not only daily driving it does fine once boosted. If you stay NA 4.09 gears make the car feel completely different especially from a dig and in lower gears. Best mod I did by far when I was NA.

 

[shogun32]

the 4.09 upgrade feels fine for not only daily driving it does fine once boosted

Really? Every post I see has people using 3.3 or 3.1 gears for FI.
I think the D4 1st gear is entirely too short when paired with 3.73. I would never use it at all even from a stop if I had 4.09 in the back.

 

[01Romanss]

Anyone running 4.56 gears on their 2018+ GT? Wondering if it’s worth going from 3.73 -> 4.09. 4.56 seems like it may be too much.

I’ve got 4.09 gears and it makes the car so much better to drive. I cruise at 80mph in 6th gear about 250 rpms more than with my stock 3.73 gears. I’m running a Lund tune with h pipe, gears and ethanol and it is absolutely an awesome ride. Throttle response with the gears and ethanol is worth every penny.

 

[Silver Bullitt]

I think the D4 1st gear is entirely too short when paired with 3.73. I would never use it at all even from a stop if I had 4.09 in the back.

I think you mean the MT82, not the D4.

 

[Silver Bullitt]

One thing I might qualify is I’m a PP2 running the 305/30’s (26.2”) in the rear, so my effective gearing is about 3.94 compared to a PP1 with the 275/40’s (27.66”). It is enough to make a little difference. I don’t really notice it though running the 27” drag radials, but I’m launching at 4K as well.

 

[Semp1]

Really? Every post I see has people using 3.3 or 3.1 gears for FI.
I think the D4 1st gear is entirely too short when paired with 3.73. I would never use it at all even from a stop if I had 4.09 in the back.

It’s absolutely not too short on the 18+. the manual final drive gearing is very long in general For fuel economy purposes. 3.73 gears on a boosted application is actually perfect on the MT82D4 2018+ but it feels like 3.55 on a 15-17. So the 4.09’s are very capable on an 18 MT82D4 don’t get that confused with 4.10’s on a 15-17 Mt82. The 4.09’s feel the same as a boosted MT82 2015-17 With 3.73’s and honestly maybe even still a little less aggressive. Just about everyone and anyone who tells you otherwise have never had 4.09’s installed let alone on a boosted 18+ in their car so it’s a hearsay statement mostly. Obviously though my statement is more for the NA guys. Switch your 3.73’s out for 4.09’s and you will be absolutely happy you did. The car actually will feel truly more powerful. Take it from me. I’ve done almost everything basic bolt on you could do and then boosted the car. The gears were still the best mod I ever did besides the blower of course.

 

[shogun32]

I think you mean the MT82, not the D4.

nope, my D4+3.73 is entirely too short. 2nd is a bit too tall for starting from a stop or else I'd use it. A 3.0 or 2.9 would be the right 1st gear IMO. Now if my diff was a 3.55 then I might be more friendly to the 3.24 the D4 comes with.

 

[Silver Bullitt]

nope, my D4+3.73 is entirely too short. 2nd is a bit too tall for starting from a stop or else I'd use it. A 3.0 or 2.9 would be the right 1st gear IMO. Now if my diff was a 3.55 then I might be more friendly to the 3.24 the D4 comes with.

Damn, good thing you don’t have the 3.66 in the pre 18’s then. I can run 50 mph in first gear. That’s tall enough for me.

On the topic of gearing, I swapped 3.91’s for the stock 3.47’s in my GTO and it was a big improvement. I still rate the cam and tune as #1, but the gears weren’t far behind. Man, I still miss that car.

 

[Norm Peterson]

nope, my D4+3.73 is entirely too short. 2nd is a bit too tall for starting from a stop or else I'd use it. A 3.0 or 2.9 would be the right 1st gear IMO. Now if my diff was a 3.55 then I might be more friendly to the 3.24 the D4 comes with.

Gearing - whether final drive or transmission gearset - that depends very much on what each driver wants/prefers.

Short gearing (big axle ratio numbers and/or 1st gear reduction ratios) are nearly always going to be favored by those who value straight line performance and "instant response" above all else. Never mind that that can essentially make 1st a "wasted" gear for not being able to use WOT in it without getting into wheelspin or wheel hop.


I can agree that overall gearing in 1st that gives you about 6.6 mph/1000 rpm can be a bit short in at least a few street driving situations. Especially if you're not inclined to wind the engine out all the time "just because you can".

IMO, the D4's biggest shortcoming is the wide spacing between gears 2, 3, and 4. Likely chosen for a little less shifting in daily driving than with the original MT82 and better emissions performance.


Norm

 

[Rael]

What Norm Peterson said.
My 2011 GT had a Magnuson supercharger. 1st gear was useless.

 

[accel]

I had a mini cooper with close ratio gear box - very fun to drive car, but noisy at the freeway. I also had a BMW with long gears - very boring transmission.

I immediately fell in love with 15-17 GT gear ratios as you have close ratios 1-5 for fun in town and then can jump into 6th on a freeway for a long comfortable ride. One of major factors that attracted me to buying 17 gt. I keep enjoying it daily.

 

[ice445]

It’s absolutely not too short on the 18+. the manual final drive gearing is very long in general For fuel economy purposes. 3.73 gears on a boosted application is actually perfect on the MT82D4 2018+ but it feels like 3.55 on a 15-17. So the 4.09’s are very capable on an 18 MT82D4 don’t get that confused with 4.10’s on a 15-17 Mt82. The 4.09’s feel the same as a boosted MT82 2015-17 With 3.73’s and honestly maybe even still a little less aggressive. Just about everyone and anyone who tells you otherwise have never had 4.09’s installed let alone on a boosted 18+ in their car so it’s a hearsay statement mostly. Obviously though my statement is more for the NA guys. Switch your 3.73’s out for 4.09’s and you will be absolutely happy you did. The car actually will feel truly more powerful. Take it from me. I’ve done almost everything basic bolt on you could do and then boosted the car. The gears were still the best mod I ever did besides the blower of course.

I agree 4.09's are absolutely worth while in general. My only complaint (and what keeps me from doing it) is that 2019+ cars need a tune to run a regear over 3.77.

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