Why DIDN'T you get a camaro?

Biggus Dickus

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It's hard to call the LT1 engine "old tech" just because it's using pushrods. Pushrod motors take up less physical space, so you can get more displacement for free essentially. The Coyote is comically huge in comparison despite its lower displacement. It's also a direct injected motor just like the Coyote is now. It's just a different philosophy to make power, and it still works well. The only way to overcome lack of cubes is to increase your compression ratio and rev higher (or run boost lol). I love a good high revving motor, so the Coyote is my personal favorite. But having the wider torque band that a pushrod engine gives is nice too.
Agreed: Less weight, less volume, lower center of gravity, mechanical simplicity, tastes great, less calories....I'm sorry - what are we talking about?
 

Hack

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CAFE dodge. Otherwise $1000 fine to be paid to the environment by way of the EPA.
Yes of course, but Ford can get away without it. Edit: I don't think it's on Dodge cars either. So it's difficult not to see it as some kind of inadequacy at GM. That is such an annoying feature.

They never learn. Had one on my '97 Formula and like probably 120% of those, disabled mine early on.

pre six-point, post skip-shift defeat:

1609857710507.webp
I disabled mine after suffering for an eternity that extended at least several weeks. When I bought the car the little disabler doohickey was in the trunk brand new in sealed packaging. Somebody put up with it for ~80,000 miles! Must have been a saint. In normal driving it never engaged, but it would get me in stop and go all the time.
🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬
 

Hack

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not sure how you can comment on the new camaros, and their engines, without even knowing about their engine. The LT1 is DI and considered a great improvement, and overhaul, from the ls engines. They started using it years ago, and is also in cars such as the c7 corvette.

that said when boosted, I prefer the coyote from what I can tell about the LT1. NA, LT1.
In my opinion DI is bad. It is bad in the GM cars and it's bad in Fords. DI engines emit small particles like a diesel engine. I don't want all those small particles in my air. I'm trying to breathe that stuff!
 

shogun32

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DI engines emit small particles like a diesel engine. I don't want all those small particles in my air. I'm trying to breathe that stuff!
then rip the eco-nazi's a new arse-hole in their myopic pursuit of higher MPG thru legislative fiat instead of considering the wholistic solution. But do recall some of the "studies" on the danger of small particulates were out and out fraud and predicated on preposterous conditions.
 

Hack

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then rip the eco-nazi's a new arse-hole in their myopic pursuit of higher MPG thru legislative fiat instead of considering the wholistic solution. But do recall some of the "studies" on the danger of small particulates were out and out fraud and predicated on preposterous conditions.
I'm definitely no expert and I haven't read any studies. Just an uneducated redneck who doesn't like these newfangled DI engines.

I like the idea of getting more power for a given displacement and being able to run higher compression. But it depends on the cost. Is it worth it?

I remember when I was in school they were talking about stratified charges. Making an ICE run more like a diesel. I don't think they've quite achieved that yet (30 years later), but they are getting closer.

I do hate the pursuit of tenths of a percentage fuel economy improvements when it raises the price of my new vehicle so much. I'd much rather have a port injection 5.7 liter TiVCT engine and pay $30 more a month for gas versus having a high tech DI TiVCT 5.0 and paying $10,000 more for the car than 3 or 5 years ago.

The other thing is the valve deposit issue. I understand it happens later in the engine's life, but I want my engine's life to be long. I don't like the DI for that reason either.
 

Hack

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Dodge has their MDS systems in the v8's though. That's why the Charger lives in Track mode, it prevents the car from going into 4-cylinder mode.

Ford also sells a lot of small/smaller displacement turbos that pay lip service to the regulation. In spite of the fact that a small turbo motor will burn just as much fuel at peak output as a larger NA engine with the same output. Because that's how physics and chemistry work :facepalm:

Look up the Skyaxtiv-x engine from Mazda. It's a gas engine that ignites via compression like a diesel for a portion of the rev range.
Agreed that CAFE like most government regulations doesn't actually achieve what they say it achieves. The thing that really makes me :facepalm: is that pickups and SUVs are not held to the same standards as cars. What good is the regulation if you're going to exclude the most common vehicles? I swear the automakers wanted to build certain types of cars so they would make more money and they bribed government officials to write the laws however they want. There's nothing there to reduce the amount of fuel burned once you include all new vehicles. It just is lip service and rules that cause some vehicles to be very expensive or eliminated. And of course they are getting rid of the vehicles we enjoy.

You are right! From what I understand spending a couple minutes looking the Mazda system may actually be able to use a fuel/air mix that is leaner than stoichiometric. That's pretty great.
 

Adamone92

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The other thing is the valve deposit issue. I understand it happens later in the engine's life, but I want my engine's life to be long. I don't like the DI for that reason either.
I think the DI move has been smart. And from my understanding, the newer DI engines dont have those issues.

Either way, its easy to nitpick. DI..MT82..etc etc.

Regardless..my point was someone talking down about an engine they didnt even know was DI. not a very strong stance to talk about an engine you dont know the basics about. Its like someone putting down the coyote and saying its a pushrod. Its not accurate, and last i checked..the lt1 and coyote are both widely considered two of the greatest engines available.
 

shogun32

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I swear the automakers wanted to build certain types of cars so they would make more money and they bribed government officials to write the laws however they want.
uhm, I hate to break it to you but essentially ZERO law is written by congress-critters or their aides. It all comes in as a Word attachment from a zillion different lobby groups "for consideration". Bear in mind almost none of the 'finished' legislation is even READ end to end before being voted on, let alone analyzed nor the "studies" purporting to buttress the terms of the law(s) validated as sound.

We make 'law' here in USA that could be characterized as shoving a bunch of papers in front of your Grandma with dementia who can't read even with her coke-bottle glasses on and being told by her grandkids to "sign here" where the yellow stickers are placed. You know, just like everybody does with their mortgage documents, 4 signatures on random pages in a 25 page sheaf that not anyone actually reads. :)
 
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Hack

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uhm, I hate to break it to you but essentially ZERO law is written by congress-critters or their aides. It all comes in as a Word attachment from a zillion different lobby groups "for consideration". Bear in mind almost none of the 'finished' legislation is even READ end to end before being voted on, let alone analyzed nor the "studies" purporting to buttress the terms of the law(s) validated as sound.

We make 'law' here in USA that could be characterized as shoving a bunch of papers in front of your Grandma with dementia who can't read even with her coke-bottle glasses on and being told by her grandkids to "sign here" where the yellow stickers are placed. You know, just like everybody does with their mortgage documents, 4 signatures on random pages in a 25 page sheaf that not anyone actually reads. :)
Few lawmakers are going to enact legislation without getting their cut of the PAC money. Why do you think restaurants are all closed but Walmart is wide open?
 

Hack

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They're certainly not closed here...
So are you refuting that special interests impact what laws get enacted and what politicians do or just want to talk about restaurants? It's great that your restaurants in LI are not closed. Not sure where LI is - long island maybe? If so I'm very surprised.

Did they cut profits by forcing all kinds of rules like 6 feet distancing, etc. or did they leave the small businesses completely alone there?

I know that small businesses such as dine in restaurants have been hit especially hard by lawmakers this last year. The huge businesses that have lots of money available for donations never got closed at all.
 

ice445

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In my opinion DI is bad. It is bad in the GM cars and it's bad in Fords. DI engines emit small particles like a diesel engine. I don't want all those small particles in my air. I'm trying to breathe that stuff!
DI is only bad at low load, generally. The dual injection is the best of both worlds. Generally the port injection system does most of the work at idle and low load to prevent soot from forming. Small turbo engines struggle with that because of having to have the fuel system to match boost but also being able to run without it in normal circumstances. Creates a lot of overlap situations where you aren't getting close to a complete burn.
 

shogun32

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Seriously, if you drive around Long Island, it doesn't look like there's a pandemic at all
GOOD! I'm surprised they raised the collective middle-finger toward Twiddle Dee and Dumb. I guess there is yet a spark of sanity left in NY.
 

OnThree

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I sold my 15 GT PP for a 17 1LE. I absolutely stole the 1LE and will probably make 4k when I sell it lol.

Both are great cars but after owning both the 1LE is just about better at everything IMO. The only reason I would go back to a coyote is if I wanted to boost it. If you want to stay NA, the LT1 is better. People are making high 500's, low 600's on heads / cam setups so no slouch there.

The mustang is the better daily driver but I work from home now and whenever I drive the 1LE I'm full sending it. The 1LE has crazy high limits and I've never felt I was anywhere close to exceeding them. It really is an amazing car. And that's coming from someone who was a die hard Ford fan before the MT82 turned me to the dark side haha.
 

Qcman17

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DI is only bad at low load, generally. The dual injection is the best of both worlds. Generally the port injection system does most of the work at idle and low load to prevent soot from forming. Small turbo engines struggle with that because of having to have the fuel system to match boost but also being able to run without it in normal circumstances. Creates a lot of overlap situations where you aren't getting close to a complete burn.
Yeah the fact the Coyote had PI in addition to DI is why I felt more comfortable with it in regards to fuel washing over the valves to help keep it clean.
 
 
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