Why DIDN'T you get a camaro?

[Norm Peterson]

Yes, but also no. A NASCAR engine's lifespan is measured in events, or hours. Lol. The problem with revving the nuts off an OHV engine is that the reciprocating mass of the pushrods and lifters is substantial and produces extreme wear on the entire valvetrain. That's why OEM's won't do it, it just won't last. In a DOHC engine, the camshaft is directly acting on the valve spring. In an OHV engine, the camshaft is exerting mechanical leverage from afar through a lifter and a pushrod/rocker arm. Accelerating all those extra parts takes more time, and more force. High angular acceleration = bad for longevity. Unless I'm missing a particularly clever design that is high revving but also reliable, in which case feel free to make me look silly.

I think you could start with an unusually high-mounted camshaft a la the Ilmor-Mercedes pushrod Indycar engine. That would give you shorter and lighter pushrods that won't be so ready to go all sine-wave in shape as the revs climb. Or need to be heavy in order to be stiff enough which would require extra spring pressure (which comes back and hints at needing still more pushrod stiffness - and weight).

Then use that Mechadyne camshaft concept, and maybe a 4-valve arrangement.


Norm

 

[Smunczen]

Not a GM guy.

 

[stanger1]

Not a Fan Boy by any means, but just enjoy performance cars.
I have had several GM cars and currently drive an older 93 C1500, my daily. It's allows my 17 Roush RS3 to stay in the Garage for crappy days.
I had looked and driven the Newer Camaro's, but they just didn't work for me.
Overall, just prefer the Mustang over the GM for several reasons
Plus, the Mustang, in any form, Shelby, Roush, Mustang GT, etc, has incredible after market mods available.
And here's a funny one.
Since the Transformer Movie came out with Bumblebee,
I am sick and tired of seeing every Yellow Camaro with a Transformer Poster, model, etc sitting with the car. It's a dead horse and time to move on.

 

[Adamone92]

Not a Fan Boy by any means, but just enjoy performance cars.
I have had several GM cars and currently drive an older 93 C1500, my daily. It's allows my 17 Roush RS3 to stay in the Garage for crappy days.
I had looked and driven the Newer Camaro's, but they just didn't work for me.
Overall, just prefer the Mustang over the GM for several reasons
Plus, the Mustang, in any form, Shelby, Roush, Mustang GT, etc, has incredible after market mods available.
And here's a funny one.
Since the Transformer Movie came out with Bumblebee,
I am sick and tired of seeing every Yellow Camaro with a Transformer Poster, model, etc sitting with the car. It's a dead horse and time to move on.

im over the bumblebee camaros too

 

[Fly2High]

I find it interesting that so many Camaro guys say they purchased the car because it is more track capable. I wonder how many actually track or autocross it?

I haven't read all the posts over there but it seems that some there have said the Mustang is the better daily driver.

Both sides seem to just have a preference in the looks department for the exterior/interior which is totally fine.
.
Some like the low end torque of the Camaro engine. Since the 0-60 between the Camaro and Mustang is so close, why does that matter? I wonder if Ford geared the car slightly differently so you got more seat planted if they would have changed their mind?

Also, many just prefer the lower seating position of the Camaro. I wonder how many Mustang owners would not have purchased the Mustang if the seats were as low as the Camaro? I wonder how much of an impact the ability to get in and out of the car due to the seat height played in the comfort of the car. How many here or there would have changed their purchase if the seats were more like the other?

Finally, I find it ridiculous that some have mentioned that the reason they did not buy a Mustang is because it is more popular than the Camaro. It is that very popularity that is keeping it in production and has the variety of aftermarket stuff available. Why does it matter that you drive a popular car? I wonder if they drive SUVs since they are super popular. I just want to drive the best car for me. Who cares if it happens to be popular or not. What if the less popular car also happened to be less reliable? Would they still drive the less popular car just to feel unique?

 

[EmCel]

Finally, I find it ridiculous that some have mentioned that the reason they did not buy a Mustang is because it is more popular than the Camaro. It is that very popularity that is keeping it in production and has the variety of aftermarket stuff available. Why does it matter that you drive a popular car? I wonder if they drive SUVs since they are super popular. I just want to drive the best car for me. Who cares if it happens to be popular or not. What if the less popular car also happened to be less reliable? Would they still drive the less popular car just to feel unique?

Exactly... people are so worried about who has what, what's popular, what's this and that, etc

who the F cares???? Get what you want and what makes you happy. I can care less about other mustangs I see on the road or next to me, I actually love it. I feel the same way about other cars too. People need to stop being so damn uptight and stop the hatred on who's faster or better and blah blah. There's always a car that's better and faster than mine and yours. But in the meantime let me enjoy my fucking car. it's enough for me.

 

[shogun32]

I find it interesting that so many Camaro guys say they purchased the car because it is more track capable. I wonder how many actually track or autocross it?

far more than GT350 drivers I reckon (as a %age). GM doesn't toss your warranty out when you take the car to the track like Ford does.

 

[Copperhead73]

Because Camaros are F'n ugly. BTW, it seems in 2020 the slo-Maro sold half of what Dodge and Ford did...

The Mustang is Dorsia

On the popularity front, one reason the Camaro is priced lower, and hence has greater bang for buck, is because it doesn't sell very well. Time will tell if that impacts long term value.

When you see rats fleeing a ship, you don't think "that must be a great ship because now it is rat-free!"

 

[Adamone92]

The Mustang is Dorsia

On the popularity front, one reason the Camaro is priced lower, and hence has greater bang for buck, is because it doesn't sell very well. Time will tell if that impacts long term value.

When you see rats fleeing a ship, you don't think "that must be a great ship because now it is rat-free!"

the 2021 mustang could be the worst performing sports car in the world, and the camaro the best in the world, and the mustang would still outsell the camaro. Its not a reflection of performance, or hell..much anything other than mustang name popularity, and advertising (ford with mustang not having much competition, whereas camaro has to compete with corvette, and the camaro is more of the red headed step child). Dodge also advertises and puts their charger/challenger out there very well.

 

[NoVaGT]

Exactly... people are so worried about who has what, what's popular, what's this and that, etc........

That's mostly forum B.S. 97% of people don't care about what they or anyone else drives.

 

[NoVaGT]

And to answer the thread's question;

I and most Mustang owners buy them over Camaros, because Mustangs are roomier, easier to get in and out of, better outward visibility, and in general just easier to live with on a daily basis.

 

[Arthonon]

And to answer the thread's question;

I and most Mustang owners buy them over Camaros, because Mustangs are roomier, easier to get in and out of, better outward visibility, and in general just easier to live with on a daily basis.

That sums up most of my feelings, as well as just not liking the exterior or interior looks of the Camaro. I have only sat in them at auto shows, but hated every moment I have been in them - I just don't like the look of the interior, and it felt dark and cramped.

 

[Adamone92]

And to answer the thread's question;

I and most Mustang owners buy them over Camaros, because Mustangs are roomier, easier to get in and out of, better outward visibility, and in general just easier to live with on a daily basis.

i would say a good majority of mustang owners didnt even look at camaros or anything dodge offers. My statistic assumptions could be incorrect; but i dont believe forum members make up a large portion of mustang owners.

 

[Copperhead73]

the 2021 mustang could be the worst performing sports car in the world, and the camaro the best in the world, and the mustang would still outsell the camaro. Its not a reflection of performance, or hell..much anything other than mustang name popularity, and advertising (ford with mustang not having much competition, whereas camaro has to compete with corvette, and the camaro is more of the red headed step child). Dodge also advertises and puts their charger/challenger out there very well.

That is probably true. Reputation means a lot.

 

[AlmostFamous]

I find it interesting that so many Camaro guys say they purchased the car because it is more track capable. I wonder how many actually track or autocross it?

I haven't read all the posts over there but it seems that some there have said the Mustang is the better daily driver.

Both sides seem to just have a preference in the looks department for the exterior/interior which is totally fine.
.
Some like the low end torque of the Camaro engine. Since the 0-60 between the Camaro and Mustang is so close, why does that matter? I wonder if Ford geared the car slightly differently so you got more seat planted if they would have changed their mind?

Also, many just prefer the lower seating position of the Camaro. I wonder how many Mustang owners would not have purchased the Mustang if the seats were as low as the Camaro? I wonder how much of an impact the ability to get in and out of the car due to the seat height played in the comfort of the car. How many here or there would have changed their purchase if the seats were more like the other?

Finally, I find it ridiculous that some have mentioned that the reason they did not buy a Mustang is because it is more popular than the Camaro. It is that very popularity that is keeping it in production and has the variety of aftermarket stuff available. Why does it matter that you drive a popular car? I wonder if they drive SUVs since they are super popular. I just want to drive the best car for me. Who cares if it happens to be popular or not. What if the less popular car also happened to be less reliable? Would they still drive the less popular car just to feel unique?

There’s no question the Mustang is a better daily driver. It’s the best compromise sports car on the market and I don’t mean that as a negative to the Mustang. It’s the reason the Mustang is the market sells leader. Ie Sporty sitting position but not too low to the ground. While it was obvious Ford had practicality high on the list when they created the Mustang, GM had more pure sports car in mind with the Camaro.

I wouldn’t be surprised if only 1 out of 10 Camaro owners who say they track (autocross) their vehicles actually take their vehicle to the track. It’s just a talking point for Camaro owners.

It’s nice having massive amounts of low-end torque with the LT1, it’s also exhilarating revving a V8 to 7,500rpms with the Coyote. It’s a wash for me personally. Both vehicles are equally as fast in the quarter-mile.

Which vehicle you like ultimately comes down to personal preference and if you’re the type that has unwavering brand loyalty. I like both vehicles and it’s the reason I owned a 2016 GT for 5 years and now own a 2021 LT1. I still think the 2015-2017 Mustang is the best looking American sports in the last 40 years, loved it the moment it debuted, but I was ready for something new.